Knight K10 Dating?

[higgalls]

Hey,

I am getting a Knight K10 piano, and I was wondering if someone would be able to tell me the age of it?
We will be picking it up in the next week or so, and then getting a professional in to tune it for us in a few weeks time, but it would be good to get some sort of age.

The people we are getting it off said that they think they got it in the 70's.

I believe the serial number is 17338.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[Bill Kibby]

The number suggests that it was made in about 1955, but it should be dated under the bottom few keys. Your tuner can look for you.

[higgalls]

The number suggests that it was made in about 1955, but it should be dated under the bottom few keys. Your tuner can look for you.

Thanks for that. Yeah they were shaky on the date they got it, and they didn't mention whether they got it brand new or second-hand at the time.

Now I realised that I'm not sure whether the serial number was 17338 or 14338. What sort of age would the 14338 be?

When I get a piano technician in in a few weeks time (and after I get the piano delivered), I will get them to check the date of it (I don't know how to remove keys, so it might be best I leave it to them to do).

Thanks.

[Bill Kibby]

That would put it a year or two earlier, so nothing dramatic. I would be interested to know what date you find.

[higgalls]

That would put it a year or two earlier, so nothing dramatic. I would be interested to know what date you find.

I will let you know when I hopefully find out in a few weeks time (unless it is easy to remove keys and find out??).

[Colin Nicholson]

About 1954 - roughly same age.

The serial number is usually on the cast frame, near tuning pins.
Other numbers are stock/ parts numbers & not recorded anywhere.

Ask your piano tuner if (s)he has the Pierce Piano Atlas to bring it along - then they can check, and no guess work - or send us a photo of the numbers.
Sometimes though, date is stamped on the side of the first piano key - bottom A.

[higgalls]

Hey,

Well we finally got the piano delivered safely, and I have had a chance to look at it a bit closer.

The serial number definiately appears to be 14336.

Now I took the cover off the keys, and on the keys it appears to be written the date of 15.10.86. I am assuming this is a tuning date??

The keys have stamped on all of them 1906, which obviously appears to be too early to be a date for the piano. Took the lowest and highest keys out, and there is nothing else written/printed on them.

Anyway, I have taken a few photos of it. I will ask the tuner to see if he can give any more info of the date when he comes in about 3 weeks time.

If you have any more idea on dating that would be great, but I will keep you informed if I find out more info.

Thanks.

[higgalls]

Actually, thinking about it. it may not be a tuning date on the key. There is a possibility that the 86 is actually a 56 but the 5 is joined to the 6. Therefore it may be that the date the piano was built is 15.10.56 which is pretty close to the estimations you guys made from the serial number before.

[Colin Nicholson]

Serial numbers never give the exact date, month & year - only the year.
The serial number #14336 is nearer 1954 in our census book.
Never rely on hand-written dates in pencil - we sometimes repeat this statement over & over again!.... this could be a tuning date, or maybe when it was serviced..... and the date of a piano is usually shown in "serial number" format - not hand-written.

Sometimes the serial number may be written again in pencil - say on the back of the action, but this is to match it up with the piano during production. The main serial number will be on the cast frame - thats the one everyone relies on. The numbers 1906 on the keys (should be just the first 2 keys???) - again - just a stock number..... have no meaning. The mechanism is probably Herrburger Brooks.

Cannot see the serial number in your photos - it would best to see this then we can confirm without any doubt. I tried to enlarge the piano front photo, and suspect the serial number is in the 'apex' between the bass & treble strings?????.... but too far away!

The numbers will be in black - stencil/decal form and about 1-2cm in height - bold format for Knight - like a normal font design. If this is so - then its c.1954. So never take notice of pencil markings, pencil signatures, pencil initials etc....(or pen!)

The piano may have been SOLD in 1956 - although it was made in 1954, some sit in stock for a year or so till they eventually sell.

Here are the numbers in our records:-

#13638 = 1954
#15443 = 1955

Hope that helps.... piano looks nice aswell.... you can now roughly work out how many were made between 1954 & 1955. About 1,805 ??

[higgalls]

Hey,

Thanks for that. Here is the picture with the serial number.

Cheers,
Chris

[Colin Nicholson]

Yep.... thats the one!

Rather naff decal - but its the serial number alright!

Quick tip.... (I know I may get shouted at here!!) .... but where you see the bass strings suddenly veering off at the top (about 45 degrees) around those upper plate pins.... if its not been tuned for ages, get your tuner to apply a small amount of silicone oil to the bass strings, just on that bend (dont use other oils).... as they are sometimes prone to breaking on that bend

cheers

[Bill Kibby]

I have never heard anyone in the English trade use the word "plate" for an iron frame, and certainly never heard anyone call the bridge pins "plate pins".

I am the one who will get shouted at because I find nothing better than WD40 for lubricating bridges, I have used it since the seventies and never had one single problem with it.

[Colin Nicholson]

Ah yes Bill, you are absolutely right.... but then again, I'm not English, originally Geordie!!!.... we even have our own translations!!.. CANNY LIKE !


I probably wouldnt describe it like that "to the trade" (well, here in Yorkshire) .... but sometimes I keep wording/ jargon simple & separate (from the lower bridge) at this stage for this chap. Yeh, I know the bass strings steer around the upper bridge pins - all part of the cast iron. I usually dab the oil on with a small brush, to keep it contained near the pins. Me too, never had a breakage yet!!

I also heard the term 'nut' used in my college days for the area raised (up-bearing) on the upper bridge - at the point where the strings rub against, or behind the pressure bar in the treble. Sometimes it can be confusing to others to think that the main bridge is made of maple (with liquid graphite) & 2 pins per string on the soundboard, and another casted bridge at the top!! .... if our K10 member understands this, I will try to be more technically correct in future!!.... you've confused me now!!

[Bill Kibby]

Harpsichord makers tended to follow the trend of fretboard instruments and call it a nut. The piano trade liked to separate itself.

[Colin Nicholson]

Ah right.... I think Alastair Lawrence used the term, or Mick Danby?

[higgalls]

Thanks for that guys.

I don't know much about the technical aspects of the piano (I am a guitarist who is teaching himself the piano). So thanks for dumbing it down a bit and also telling me the proper names for things.

I'm actually from Australia, so who knows... maybe we even use different terminology at times too

[Colin Nicholson]

G'Day then Chris!

Are you born n bred Ozzy then?
I love Australia - was there in NT and NSW in 2009 - my sister lives in Alice Springs (very quiet out there!!) .... and went to Byron Bay NSW - that was a fab place.... but didnt see many pianos! My Mum is out there now - ooh - about 32C she says!!

Good luck with the piano - if you are in NSW, I know a tuner.

[higgalls]

Thanks for that Colin, and G'day back to you

Yeah I was born in Australia (my dad is English though). I live near Sydney. Today is a beautiful sunny day, but Summer is almost over and I can probably count the sunny days on my hands - it has mainly been wet which is very unusual.

I have never actually been to the NT. Maybe one day I will make it there, although there are still tonnes of other places I want to visit (that's the problem when you live in such a big and vast country).

I already have a contact for a tuner, but thanks anyway - he tunes our Church's pianos (where I am the minister at). His name is David Winter.

Thanks again for all your help.