Out of tune quickly?

[Nutroast]

Hi there, my piano has always held pitch well, but, having not had it tuned for ages (2 years), I took the plunge and had it tuned about a month ago. Now, it's already sounding like it needs tuning again Is there a chance that tuning it has actually "loosened" things so that it needs doing again so soon? I can't really afford to have it done again so soon, but I don't want it to drift too far out.

J

[Johnkie]

If the person that tuned your piano is someone that you've used in the past, then I would get in touch and ask them nicely if they could perhaps pop back and have a look at things for you. Pianos do sometimes go out of tune quite quickly if humidity or temperature changes dramatically .... or indeed if the wrestpins are not holding as they should.

If, on the other hand, you have had someone completely different to tune youre piano, it may well be a case of the tuner not being very good at what he does. There are lots of bad tuners about, but also some very experienced top notch ones .... the difficulty is finding which is which.

For what it's worth, if a customer of mine made contact with your problem, I would gladly make a return visit to help them out - 99 time out of 100 it would not be due to anything not done properly, but rather than argue the toss, I would sort it out for them without further charge for the sake of customer relations.

[Colin Nicholson]

If your piano has not been tuned for over 2 years may suggest that your piano tuner has involved some sort of pitch raise or pitch drop (inner octaves) and incorporated this as a "tuning". If this is so, depending on the age and condition of the piano strings & pins, they sometimes need a further "tweak" a few weeks later (or maybe in your case.... days).

As an example, I tuned a regular customer's piano last week (which I re-strung just over 4 years ago), it was last tuned in January this year.... however it was 'miles out' of tune.... about 6-8 beats sharp mainly in the inner octaves. The customer told me he had not been living in his house since about February, and that house was very cold; he also asked me to put it back to "Concert Pitch" .... so therefore due to the large discrepancies in the tuning, I spent around 20 - 25 minutes alone to get the 'scale area' spot on.... then had to go over the tuning several times - as notes just previously put in tune quickly went out of tune. It took me about 2 hours to finally tune it.... however I advised the customer that the piano would benefit a finer tuning in around 4 - 6 weeks time. So to keep the cost down, I basically "tidied it up" .... managed to stabilise the tuning, but warned the customer that some unisons may drift slightly out of tune. I also felt that even though the strings & pins were 4 years old, the ability to set a concert tuning was still in its infancy - due to it being an old piano anyway, and that the piano should be tuned every 4 months, and not left for over 11 months.

So with this in mind.... your piano being left for over 2 years would ring bells for me.

Even new pianos can be a slight struggle to keep perfectly in tune. I recently tuned 2 Kawai K2 pianos for a grammar school - brand new, just 2 years old.... and again they were both miles out; so I always recommend that for a tuning to "stay in tune" for any reasonable length of time (if a new or restrung piano), it should be tuned more frequently.... but of course, this may cost more!

Did the tuner write anything on the invoice re: a pitch change?
How long did it take your tuner to do the job?
Roughly how old is your piano?

However, I may be wrong and your piano could have been very near to C523.3Hz.

As Johnkie said, maybe contact your tuner again.... I certainly wouldn't charge again for just tidying up a few unisons.... and your tuner will want to keep your custom.

I would though check out your room with a hygrometer combined thermometer, and maybe consider having fitted a dampp chaser and/or humidifier.

[Barrie Heaton]

Hi there, my piano has always held pitch well, but, having not had it tuned for ages (2 years), I took the plunge and had it tuned about a month ago. Now, it's already sounding like it needs tuning again Is there a chance that tuning it has actually "loosened" things so that it needs doing again so soon? I can't really afford to have it done again so soon, but I don't want it to drift too far out.

J

Have you just turned your central heating on we have had a mild October and its now getting colder and the heating is coming on more this changes the Houses humidity made worse if the piano was pitched

Barrie,

[Nutroast]

Thanks, everyone.

I'm starting to suspect we have a humidity problem. The house seems very damp and we never have the central heating on, the house is heated by the woodburner, so I think the humidity stays high. I've definitely noticed some mould spots forming on items of furniture. The end of the house where the piano is is the dampest part as it's the furthest from the source of heat. It's also cool. At this time of year, that room rarely gets above 14-15C. By the way, that's not the coldest room, the kitchen got to 6C overnight last winter! We're hoping it will be slightly better this year as the cavities have been filled now.

I think I have a hygrometer somewhere and will try and measure what we have and put in a couple of dehumidifiers if necessary. I'm reluctant to put the central heating on £££££££££

Thanks again for your advice. Once I have checked out these things, I'll give the tuner a call again. Colin - to answer your other questions, I hadn't used him before, the old one we had before we moved doesn't cover this area. I sat and watched him and he certainly took his time and it was perfectly in tune when he left. My piano is a 1985 Marshall & Rose thing of beauty!

[NewAge]

As you've now realised it would appear that your living environment is seriously upsetting your piano.

(Quote) "I've definitely noticed some mould spots forming on items of furniture. The end of the house where the piano is is the dampest part as it's the furthest from the source of heat. It's also cool. At this time of year, that room rarely gets above 14-15C."

For further info, after the recent tune did your piano sound flat or sharp? I suspect the latter.
As we know it's extremes of temperature and/or humidity that disturbs pianos, and if I understand my physics correctly it would appear that you have two conditions that are significantly working against you, i.e. excess humidity = sharp in tone, and cold temperature = sharp in tone. (If I've got this backwards I'm sure the experts will advise accordingly).

When I was living in Asia (high humidity) I noticed that almost everybody I met with a piano had a heating bar installed within the piano - and the same with new pianos at most of the dealers.
I was concerned with my brand-new piano (in Europe) with unstable tuning for the first 18 months (total of 5 tunings), and decided on a Dammp Chaser Piano Life Saver. Results were magical. Superb stability as soon as it was installed, and I now I only have 1 tuning/year - which now could be looked upon as a bit of a luxury under the circumstances.
As I note you have a Marshall & Rose, it may well be worth treating it and yourself to a really useful Christmas present.

[Colin Nicholson]

http://www.fletcher-newman.co.uk/catalo ... m220u.html

The above link will show you the climate system for pianos - similar one fitted to Newage's piano I think.

However they are quite expensive!

You can also get just the heated tube alone - (Dampp Chaser dehumidifier). Its a tube about 3ft in length and has a 25 watt heated element inside it. Easily clips onto the inside of the bottom panel on your piano, and comes with 2 plastic 'U' clips & screws. Sometimes (for neater wiring), the plug is snipped off, a small hole drilled into the bottom corner of your soundboard - wiring fed through and plug rejoined with connector.

If your room doesn't exceed 15 degrees C, you probably wont need a humidifier - this is a separate tube - with slits cut out and then submerged in water. Then hangs inside your piano - ideal if you have central heating on alot. However if you fit either device - it doesnt mean your room can be 6 degrees! .... it should still be an "ambient" temp of around 18 degrees, and a humidity reading of around 60% for ideal conditions for your piano.

If you have the whole system installed (water tank etc), it is recommended to use distilled water. The heated tube also helps to preserve the keys and action parts. This also helps to prevent a 'sluggish' action, sticking keys, seized up hammers, jacks & lever flanges.... and repinning a whole action is not cheap either. I fit those dampp chasers alone for about £40 - £50, so might be worth having a chat with your tuner.

Hope that helps.