John Spencer & Co

[Claudia Konig]

Hello Bill,

we've got an upright piano with a John Spencer Co serial number 20655 on the inside. Above this number another number is given - 2B. However, on the ouside above the keys it says Russel & Russell. I'd appreciate if you could tell us something about the connection between Russell & Russell and John Spencer Co and if possible give us your best estimate how old the piano actually is. The piano is still tunable but not to concert pitch.

Many thanks for your help.
Claudia

[Bill Kibby]

Although there were a number of different piano makers and dealers named Russell, the firm of "Russell & Russell" were retailers with branches in several major towns and cities in Scotland and England, including Glasgow, Leeds, London, Mansfield, Manchester, & Worksop. This piano would be a Spencer, and the number suggests that it was made in 1893, but without photos, I have no idea if that is likely. Most pianos have several numbers inside, but the Spencer serial number would be under the name, visible just by lifting the top, and there might also be a model number of one or two digits.

[Claudia Konig]

Hello Bill,

thank you so much for your quick reply. This is quite exciting because I didn't realise that the piano could be nearly that old. I have uploaded a picture to give you a better impression of the piano. The serial number is indeed inside in the upper right hand corner. Checking it again after zooming in on a photo I noticed that the number is actually 20653 and not as quoted earlier 20655. The model number seems to be 2B noted directly under the John Spence & Co name.

Many thanks again for your help. Much appreciated.
Claudia

[Colin Nicholson]

Certainly looks very old and pre- 1900's. The walnut - effect grain is very attractive and if you look closely where they are 'mirror imaged' this is often painted on with a brush to distract you from the veneer joins, then French polished over.
The strings will be straight-strung inside (running vertical), and possibly over-damped, so best to keep it away from any source of central heating/ radiator etc, unless the dampers are ringing on now, if exposed to too much warmth, they may start ringing on.

Enjoy!!

[vernon]

Certainly old but not much of it original.
It was" modernised" with new top panel in the 1950s( the bottom panel is probably original-you'll see it's different), the top sawn off, the toes likewise and beech columns fitted( supplied by Fletchers et al in various designs)in place of the old carved brackets.
Of course, that makes them more liable to fall over.
If anyone is interested,I'll be pleased to give the fiscal reasons for this wholesale butchery of old pianos at that time.

[Bill Kibby]

What interests me is the suggestion that they sawed the toes shorter. Did they? I have always gone along with the theory that short toes were an indication that the piano originally had trusses. That would certainly fit in with its age.

Whoops! There goes another rubber tree plant!

[Johnkie]

I agree with you Bill - Trusses in this example .. if you look closely at the treble side, you can clearly see the filled screw hole where the truss was fixed. I well remember as a young apprentice down in the south having to load up part exs' just about this sort of standard and era, to be shipped off to a firm in Highbury to be "modernised" ..... They looked quite good on their return ... but the action and keys were horrible. Treble hammers had been re-faced through to the wood in some cases, centres were either slopping about or so tight that they would only play once in every 10 minutes. The keys were barrelled where the sides were papered, and the covers were like a ploughed field. Looking back, I can't for the life of me understand why such a well respected firm ever sold such rubbish ... even though the rationale was "cheap and cheerful for the beginner" market !

[vernon]

crikey johnkie
you must be as old as me !.
We used to go afterwork in the piano factory in Kentish Town ( NW3)to saw up all these old joannas to modernise them for the modern market.
I wince when I come across them nowadays with people saying " I bouight it new in 1960!" when it was 50 years old by then.

[Johnkie]

Quite right Vernon - Too many birthdays and it seems ... more and more senior moments However it has set me thinking and I now realise that it was all a ploy to train up the apprentices on iffy "highburys" where even the odd mistake wouldn't make that much of a difference, before gaining the experience to be let loose on decent instruments. One might say " the bad old good old days"

[Bill Kibby]

I remember a firm that used to call the process "streamlining", because it sounded so much more civilised than "modernisation"! They hacked bits off an upright piano everywhere they could, destroyed the structure of the bottom area, left the pedals in ridiculous positions, cut back the edges of iron frames, rounded off corners, and fitted those awful curved columns.

I remember also that one manager I worked for briefly told all sorts of whoppers to sell pianos, whether it was made for the Queen Mary, or used by somebody famous. The director pleaded with me not to leave, saying "you'll be here a lot longer than he will!" and it was soon after that the manager went off in handcuffs.

So many people were conned into thinking they had bought new pianos when they were really "streamlined" old bangers.

[Claudia Konig]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Just to summarise your thoughts so far (excuse me if I maybe haven't understood all the details exacty): The original piano can most likely be dated back to pre 1900. It has most likely been "streamlined" based on your assessment of the different top and bottom panels, curved columns, cut toes, and that it possibly had trusses. Not so sure about the trusses though. What can be seen on the treble side are marks left by two awful self adhesive stickers the previous owner had put on. We actually bought the piano in Aberdeen about 15 years ago and now live in Perth Western Australia . Our children learned to play piano on the instrument. Hopefully the climate is not too dry for the dampers. Anything I can do about that? Would any additional pictures of certain parts of the piano help?

Many thanks again for your help.
Claudia

[Colin Nicholson]

Regarding the climate in Australia. Well, from one extreme to the other, my sister & her family live in Alice Springs, NT and very dry there, but say, in Byron Bay, NSW - its the opposite - around Sept Jan time, so depends on the weather & climate.

There are various measures you can do to check the humidity levels - buy a hygrometer, fairly cheap, and optimum humidity should be around 55%. If its very dry & hot out there, then you can have fitted to your piano a humidifier, and if damp/ cold/wet, a "Dampp Chaser".

If you click on the Piano Advice forum, NewAge has just recently posted some photos of his piano with a full climate control system under the heading "DamppChaser Pads". If you have the humidifier on, you need to check out your tap water first, and recommended to use distilled water, or you can buy just a humidifier tube (Hydroceel) on its own. The photos show the full system, but are available separately aswell.

However please remember that assuming your piano is in reasonable 'nick' - they are Ok to fit on most pianos, but if it has suffered previously from damp or dryness, fitting extra devices may not save previous conditions.