What is 'False'

[James Henderson]

Hello,

About three years ago I rescued a Gors & Kallmann baby grand which was about to be dumped. The serial number dates it to around 1926. A friend housed it for me until recently when I brought it back home, having put my C3 up for sale. I want to use it as a practice piano until I've saved up enough for either an S6 or a reconditioned Steinway. The G&K seems to be in reasonable condition considering it doesn't seem to have had any work done on either the strings or the action and it hadn't been tuned whilst in storage.

A local technician came to see it this week and got it up to A=438. On the tuning card he noted that it is 'false at present'. I wondered if someone here could tell me what that meant? I'm guessing it's something to do with the fact it couldn't be brought up to 440? It was tuned on Thursday and a few notes have gone a little out already but so far it seems to be quite stable.

Incidentally, I used to post here as 'Openwood' until I had a strop and left. I thought it was time I tried to rehabilitate myself

[Colin Nicholson]

Welcome back James!

It probably means that the whole tuning is rough for now, and the next tuning will be brought up to Concert Pitch...... however, can you tell me the following?

1. Did the tuner perform a pitch raise?
2. Approx. how flat was it? (semitone/ tone?)
3. Why couldn't it be brought up to A440 Hz ??
4. Did he use a meter or tuning fork to set the pitch?
5. If a pitch raise, how long did it take?
6. Have you booked the tuner to come back?
7. Are there any broken/ missing/ rusty strings / loose tuning pins?
8. What did the tuner write on the invoice?
9. Did HE write 'false at present'? or someone else?

If you asked for the piano to be pitch raised, the 1st tuning (depending on how flat it was) will just 'haul' the strings up to pitch - but Im surprised he didn't get it up to A440 (or C523.3) on one go? then follow it with a 'rough tuning'

"False at present" may be to do with the general tuning he did last week, but if you can answer most of the questions above, it should reveal what it means. However, "false strings" or "false beats" is a different thing, and is connected with the condition of the strings/ tuning theories & perhaps the difficulty that the tuner experienced during the tuning. Yes, some of the strings will go out of tune, even within a few hours after a pitch raise (and some strings actually during the tuning), but if it was tuned finely, it shouldn't have gone out of tune if the pins are tight, and strings OK....

[Barrie Heaton]

Hello,

A local technician came to see it this week and got it up to A=438. On the tuning card he noted that it is 'false at present'. I wondered if someone here could tell me what that meant? I'm guessing it's something to do with the fact it couldn't be brought up to 440? It was tuned on Thursday and a few notes have gone a little out already but so far it seems to be quite stable.

Hi James

When a piano is tuned below the scale design pitch, the strings can be very false, grands with duplex scaling can be very bad for this and it becomes difficult to get a pure unison manly on older pianos when other factors come into play.

If he has pitched it and the piano has not been tuned for a wile unisons will drift particularly if there is a lot of drag on the string and the pint are not brill. Did he say that he will pull it up on to pitch on the next visit

OTH you could phone him and asks what it is , could be his own code for this guy make a bad cup of tea

Nice to have you back

Barrie,

[NewAge]

Hello,

About three years ago I rescued a Gors & Kallmann baby grand which was about to be dumped. The serial number dates it to around 1926. A friend housed it for me until recently when I brought it back home, having put my C3 up for sale. I want to use it as a practice piano until I've saved up enough for either an S6 or a reconditioned Steinway. The G&K seems to be in reasonable condition considering it doesn't seem to have had any work done on either the strings or the action and it hadn't been tuned whilst in storage.

A local technician came to see it this week and got it up to A=438. On the tuning card he noted that it is 'false at present'. I wondered if someone here could tell me what that meant? I'm guessing it's something to do with the fact it couldn't be brought up to 440? It was tuned on Thursday and a few notes have gone a little out already but so far it seems to be quite stable.

Incidentally, I used to post here as 'Openwood' until I had a strop and left. I thought it was time I tried to rehabilitate myself

Welcome back!
I wondered where you'd gone, as I used to enjoy your posts.

[James Henderson]

Thank you for your kind words, folks - it's very good to be back!

I've emailed the technician to ask what he meant by 'false' and (nicely!) why he couldn't bring the piano up to 440. To answer some of the questions - it was the technician himself who wrote 'false' on the tuning card. There are no obvious visible faults with the piano, apart from the fact that it is simply very old and hasn't had any regular attention for many years. One of the bass strings has obviously been replaced, but apart from that all the strings appear to be original and the soundboard appears to be intact. The felt strips underneath the strings are very aged and appear to be original (dark green). A few notes have drifted out since it was tuned last Thursday but I guess it's too early to tell if this indicates a stability problem or just 'settling in'.

A couple of things are interesting about this piano; it has differently styled legs from any other G&K I can find on the web. Its three legs each consist of two vertical bars with the 'cross beam' very near the bottom in a sort of 'H' shape. Secondly, it has a 'Bluthner-style' music tray with rectangular 'cut out' patterns rather than a solid wooden one and none of the G&Ks I've seen on the web have this. Of course, I might have just missed them!

I have some photos but can't work out how to post them

Incidentally,the piano is 152 centimetres long.

I must say, it's nice to have a piano with provinence! Although my modern C3 was a lovely piano, I really like to think of this G&K as having a history behind it and I'd love to know how it got from Berlin to Guernsey

[A440]

Hello again James!
The leg type is called gate-leg and are somewhat prone to being wobbly - hopefully yours arn't, it can be quite a pain to fix. G & K made lots of fancy exhibition pianos. I once had a beautiful upright with art noveau marquetry of Klimpt-like ladies with flowing hair on it. Exquisite! But sadly it had a cracked frame!
Good luck with yours. Have you considered restringing bass section? Might be well worth it if piano is completely stable.

[joe]

If bass strings have been replaced in the past would indicate that the piano has been flat for a good number of years when tuning would have raised the bass notes to the pitch the A was at before doing PITCH RAISE if stable at 438 would play and leave for 3 Months to see how it settles,after that who knows,FALSE there is always going to be this problem due to the age and size of grand,most important is the piano plays and stays in tune with itself would not go down the road of re-stringing etc,

[James Henderson]

Thanks for the replies. Fortunately the gate-legs seem to be secure at present!

Regarding the tuning, some notes in the bass end have drifted since the tuning last week, but I suppose it's still too early to say whether this is due to an underlying stability issue or whether the piano is just 'settling-in' to a new environment. The treble end has stayed in tune far better than the bass, so maybe that does point to an underlying problem in the bass end?

Think I'll give it a few weeks before making any decisions, but those bass notes are starting to bother me. Oh well, when all's said and done it's just an 80-year old 4-ft G&K and it cost me virtually nothing so if it ends up going to the great Piano Lounge in the sky so be it!

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi James

If it hasn't been tuned for ages, the first tuning 'sort of' just puts things back where they should be. A second tuning should be much more thorough & may help to stabalise the pitch. If it continues to drift slightly, you could try pin-tite. Its a kind of resin that is injected into the wrest pin holes (and the side openings of the wrest pins) - and the wrest plank swells & helps to grip the pins better.... but there are side-effects and it may develop 'pin creak' (as it did once on an old piano of mine) and tuning became difficult. Can also be a temporary measure, as someone once said to me...."its like putting radweld into a car radiator to stop a leak".... ideal to sell the car!!