New or used Perzina 129?

[tomstockwell]

Hello

Shortly after Christmas I purchase a Perzina 129 from Dawsons. Expecting to pay c. £5k, the price I paid at the till was £3,400. I asked the guy on several occasions to confirm that this was a new Perzina and not a refurb / ex display and he confirmed to me that it was a new one.

It hasn't yet been delivered however how can I check when the piano is delivered whether it is new or 2nd hand?

thanks in advance

tom

[Barrie Heaton]

You can check with Perzina when the piano was made. However, Dawsons may have had it on the shop floor for a few years, (which is not uncommon with some retailers 5 years with some models ) and just want to move it on hence the good deal

Enjoy your piano

Barrie,

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

£5000 may be the RRP and £3400 may be the real price.
I have 2 brand new Chinese pianos (the best available) in stock that are 3 years old. How can that be? See Barrie's post You can have them for £1000 for the pair if you like because we can't get them to stay in tune. Searching this forum brings a topic where someone has struggled to keep their 1 year old Chinese Perzina 129 in tune. Here it is
http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... f=3&t=6682

The original poster doesn't come back with an update on the situation which is a shame

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

Update: I just remember that I gave away one of my Chinese pianos for free to a grotty pub that has a pub pianist on once per week. I thought better put it to use then leave it rotting in a corner. I always think pub pianos sound better out of tune so I thought it would be perfect for the job.

When they are finished with it I've asked for it back so I can give it away to another pub instead.

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

p.s. I'm not mentioning the brand of my piano because the distributor I got it from was very nice and runs what seems to be an excellent shop that is a credit to the UK piano industry.

[tomstockwell]

hi all, thanks for your replies.

Mark: getting the distinct impression you don't think much of chinese pianos

[Barrie Heaton]

hi all, thanks for your replies.

Mark: getting the distinct impression you don't think much of chinese pianos

Form a tuners point of view some Chinese pianos:

they take more tunings to settle down
They seem to swing more on change of humidity.
The tunings pins on some are a challenge and very frustrating on some with lots of drag on the string
The quality can be inconstant some can be very surprising nice and others are at best pretty boxes with strings in

Just my observations other tuners may thing they are wonderful

Barrie

[mdw]

You will tend to find most piano shop will recomend what they sell its comercial suicide to do otherwise. Pianos from China range from total rubbish to acceptable. You tend to get what you pay for ie dont expect a great piano for £1500 new but it may be better than a £1000 bodged up 1930s upright.
If you want the piano to last your life buy Yam, Kemble, Kawai etc. If you dont want to spend £3-£5K in case the kids give up in 6 months later then buy one of the better pianos from China/ Korea / Indonesia which would do the job. You cant ignore those countrys as they make the bulk of the worlds pianos.
Even the great Yamaha have made some 2nd rate pianos. The major selling points for lots of 2nd hand Yams dealers is they have had the spring loops done on their U pianos. I tune pianos every day of the week some at least 80 years old and still on the original loops with no problems. The Yams dont last 30 years!!!!!! I still dont understand why that hasnt killed their reputation. Its a bit like if most BMWs needed their engines stripped and rebuilt at 3 years old.

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

MDW: You will tend to find most piano shop will recomend what they sell its comercial suicide to do otherwise

That's fraud then. If they are answering the following questions with a "YES" they are committing fraud

Will this piano hold its tune well?
Will this piano get me to grade 8?
Will this piano hold its value well?

Those are the questions that my customers ask me very regularly. That means they must also be asking the same questions of the dealers who stock the disposable Chinese pianos. If they answer "Yes" then in my opinion they are committing fraud.

[Barrie Heaton]

MDW: You will tend to find most piano shop will recomend what they sell its comercial suicide to do otherwise

That's fraud then. If they are answering the following questions with a "YES" they are committing fraud

Will this piano hold its tune well?
Will this piano get me to grade 8?
Will this piano hold its value well?

Those are the questions that my customers ask me very regularly. That means they must also be asking the same questions of the dealers who stock the disposable Chinese pianos. If they answer "Yes" then in my opinion they are committing fraud.

Well No

Will this piano hold its tune well?
If they say "Yes" they are not lying define "Well" a day a week there are Yamaha out there that don't hold their tunings well as other Yamaha's S4 is one that come to mind
Will this piano get me to grade 8?
Yes many folk out there have made it to grade 8 on old over dampers and many Chinese kids get to Grade 8 and above on their pianos
Will this piano hold its value well?
Well again Yes compared to A keyboard 10 years a go most pianos held there value well but now not so well because of the cheep imports

It all down to interpretation but some sales staff are very good at shooting themselves in the foot as they don't always listen

Barrie

[mdw]

That's fraud then. If they are answering the following questions with a "YES" they are committing fraud

Will this piano hold its tune well?
Will this piano get me to grade 8?
Will this piano hold its value well?

Those are the questions that my customers ask me very regularly. That means they must also be asking the same questions of the dealers who stock the disposable Chinese pianos. If they answer "Yes" then in my opinion they are committing fraud.

There are too many variables in those questions to say they would be comitting fraud.

Pianos from China cover a very broad spectrum from fire wood to perfectly acceptable pianos. Pick a good one and you will be fine.

Ive also got customers who did grade 8 with over dampers at home to play on ( some how ).

If you pick your piano just on which has the highest residuals then youve already lost. Tot up lessons, music, tuning, time playing etc and the loss you make on the piano itself is nothing if you love your particular piano. Besides most people loose more than the whole cost of a good piano in the 1st year of owning a new car.

Even if a £1300 piano had lost 50% of its value after 3 years you would have lost a lot more in cash terms on the Yamaha after 3 years . Supply and demand dictates the price of 2nd hand pianos and those of us who were in this trade a few years ago remember that the customers back then wanted small modern . Thats why all the U yams have to come from japan 2nd hand. If the public decide big black trad uprights isnt where its at their value will fall like a lead balloon as their value is determined not by local conditions but by ebay where there seem to be thousands of the things. If you think im joking try selling a teak piano a few years ago ( any make). Stick the cash under the matress if you want a dead cert!

If you have the cash buy a nice big Yam Kawai or Kemble, if not a decent piano from China will be fine. Even Kawai and Yamaha make thousands of pianos in China.

PS The point at which you hand over the cheque is the point at which you should stop looking and wondering if you have done the right thing or got the best price its toooooooooo late . Look forward to your piano and enjoy it..

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

Yes I suppose fraud is difficult to prove when things are a matter of opinion.