My piano- N.L Van Gruisen & Son Liverpool

[Bill Kibby]

Van Gruisen & Son were around from at least the 1880s, and were Ltd. by 1928, but I can't give you an accurate date. It is difficult to see the photo, but it looks like something from before the 1914 war. There may be clues inside, so have a look at pianogen.org

[Colin Nicholson]

When you say the "hammers" going down, do you mean the 'keys' ?
A piano of this age may either have broken hammer shanks, or depending where there is no sound, the string(s) may be missing, or even a missing jack spring. When you ring your tuner, don't forget to tell them first that some notes don't work as it can't be tuned properly until they are repaired. Also, if broken hammer shanks, look inside the bottom of the piano, the original hammer heads - oval shaped - (and their broken shanks) may be there tucked away with the pedal mechanism.
Brittle and dried out wood in piano actions is quite common on old mechanisms, and remember there is no such thing as a "free" piano!

[Colin Nicholson]

The piano certainly has character!
If the hammers only move a small amount, and don't reach the strings - yes, it could be jack springs missing or dislocated - and if its a "spring & loop" mechanism, be warned!! - some tuners won't touch them, and if the loops have broken, or the hook on the springs have broken off, they are a fiddly repair - but keep fingers crossed!!
If you take a photo of the mechanism - with the front board removed, I might have a better idea, but photo will need to be clearer & focussed..
Ta

[Colin Nicholson]

Sorry to say, but I think you will have major problems getting this fixed (by the photos).. yes, these are two broken hammers, and the shanks have snapped off (the shank is the round length of wood that looks like dowelling). Also, the hammer butt has split where the centre pin holds the butt on the flange, so the flange will probably be still attached to the action frame with its pin in it.

This is a "straight-strung" piano, and I notice there may be a piece of cloth or felt wedged between two strings??? can you see it?.... well, this probably means that a previous tuner had problems tuning this string - a loose tuning pin is the cause, so a piece of cloth has been inserted to mute the offending string. As I said, old and brittle wood. The tuner may also have to "rob" certain parts from one end of the piano to make a hammer work. There are only 2 hammers here, so if you look at the mechanism, you will see gaps in the hammers (apart from the gaps where the strings change from the bass strings to treble) - called the 'break'. When a hammer shank breaks, depending on its position, it will usually drop to the bottom of the piano, between the strings & keybed, but sometimes they lodge themselves inside the mechanism - so maybe the cause for the broken butt. Tricky to repair, and often is the case, the piano has been refused or condemned by a previous tuner, so I wouldn't set your heart on it. The old shanks will have to be cut off, then drilled to fit a new shank.... and also, if there are 2 hammer heads, there is a butt missing? - not many piano tuners want to start making these parts.

I wouldn't bother cleaning it I were you - get a piano tuner out, the action will need to come out, and there may be more broken bridle tapes aswell (these are the thin material strips attached to the hammer butt with a red leather tip, so never try to put the action back if they are broken.

Too many other things to mention, and because you don't know enough about pianos, I fear the worst for you. At least it was free and didn't cost you anything, but even after it has been fixed, ALL the wooden parts are brittle, knackered and read to break when you start playing it.

Vikings funeral I think......

Colin

[Colin Nicholson]

Its not quite as simple as that, and repairing/ replacing old & brittle piano parts mostly a thing of the past. A single piano hammer comes in three main sections; 1. Hammer head - this is the elongated/oval section with a wooden core and felt tightly wrapped around it - this part hits the strings. 2. Hammer shank. For your piano this will be either 5mm or 5.5mm dowelling - this is easily replaceable and most good tuners will have replacement shanks; one end it glued into the hammer head (left to dry), then it is cut to the right length to fit the hammer butt.

3. The hammer butt. This is the square(ish) section of wood that everything is joined to. At the top, a hole is drilled for the hammer shank. At the back, is the balance - this will have leather wrapped around it, at the front, the wood is specially moulded to receive the flange - like a wooden hinge. There is also a small hole (about 1.3mm in diameter) to receive the centre pin. On your hammer butts, these are a push fit, so the wood must be in good condition. At the bottom, there is a small square piece of cushion felt, and a curved piece of leather - this is where the jack sits. All hammer shanks & heads can be replaced, usually from an old piano, or sometimes new.... but the hammer butt is unique, and it is unlikely a hammer butt from another piano will fit yours.

If a spinet or any piano is "repaired" - the wood must all be in tact, and the wooden butts are rarely replaced - as this sometimes involves making one. When a piano is refurbished, only the leathers, felts and tapes are replaced - not the wood. If any hammer butts are missing (no 3), then you will have to pay someone good money to make one. Depending on how many hammer parts you have retrieved, and if the two you show have both the butt and head, the shank can easily be replaced.

However, in doing this will not be cheap - and the more serious issue is the piece of cloth wedged amongst the strings. If the tuner cannot tune the piano, and the tuning pins are too loose, he may be able to replace the tuning pin for a size larger (or drive in the pin slightly further), but sometimes it transpires that the cost of the repairs will not be economical for you, and even after a "half - attempted" tuning, the piano will very shortly go back out of tune. Also in removing a loose tuning pins sometimes breaks the string, so a new string will have to be wound on.

Best bet is when you have some money, book a tuner and see what they say - don't be surprised if they walk away - sometimes a reputable tuner does not want any "come back" on an old piano - and any "fixing" of an old piano will just be a temporary measure.

Oh no, a Vikings funeral is not a skip, thats not dramatic enough!!! I mean set fire to it, and push it out to sea..... thats a Vikings funeral

Thanks
Colin

[Colin Nicholson]

Just out of interest, has the mechanism got lots of wires at the front? looking like a bird cage? - and do any notes ring on after letting go of the key?

Joking aside, when you say "there is nothing splitting or cracking" - are you referring to the soundboard? if that is in tact, then good. However, the wrest plank that houses the tuning pins sometimes develops cracks inside - and cannot be seen by the naked eye, even by an experienced tuner - it is made of laminated wood, usually hard rock maple to take on the 16 tons of pressure by the downforce of the strings. If there are any fractures in there - usually running in-line with a series of tuning pins, then it cannot be repaired. The wrest plank is glued into the back of the piano, and to renew it requires routering it out. Also, a technician would rarely do this to an over-damped and straight strung piano of around 80+ years old. This may be the reason for the cloth against the strings. Why not take the cloth out, and pluck the strings with your fingers, and see if the pitch is much lower than the neibouring strings - they are tuned in threes (tri chord). To replace the wrest plank involves completely de-stringing the piano, taking the cast frame out, and would cost in excess of £5K - possibly more.

I would be careful what you eventually spend. I once restored a piano mechanism for an early 1900's piano, and charged in the region of £900. When I eventually installed it and tuned it, because the piano had time to "dry out" - huge cracks developed deep inside the wrest plank, and none of the bass strings would stay in tune.... I hope you are more lucky.

Of course, a hammer butt can be made by hand, as they are obsolete now, but remember that even after a restoration, the piano will not last forever as they constantly deteriorate.

When you see restorations on a website, they will very rarely be for a piano that is straight-strung & over-damped, and a name unheard of.... in most cases, the piano will have an under damped mechanism and will be over-strung, and will not have loose tuning pins - they are checked over thoroughly before considered restoring, so not every piano can be restored.

Just out of interest, where do you live? UK?

[Colin Nicholson]

There is a book you can buy that shows you how to care for your piano, and also compares various designs of piano (you might want to look away when it comes to straight-strung!), but a very good read. I got one on amazon. Its the "Haynes Piano Manual" by John Bishop and Graham Barker - a good starting point, and it also explains a bit about the mechanisms. I paid about £14 (inc. pp) and available on the internet.

I have a colleague in the Lake District who also got a free piano from "freecycle" - and its a Bechstein Model 10, upright piano. After various chats on a piano forum (not this one), I drove 130 miles to see it, and tune it. It tuned up fine & sounds good - has a few problem with it, but to get a Bechstein was a stroke of luck. I am doing some veneer repairs on it now, and he is considering having the mechanism overhauled.

When you get your tuner out, don't forget to remind him/her about the piece of cloth wedged in the strings, otherwise they will be pulling on the string "for England" and may break it if they don't hear a change in pitch. If just the one piece of cloth, consider having the tuning pin (and string) replaced. At the moment, there is no damage done and the hammer will probably be sounding the 2 remaining un-muted strings. To save you using a torch, why not remove the front board (the one that has the sconces brass brackets) - and check out any more missing parts.... there should be 85 hammers (less the two that are broken = 83 on the mechanism). Also where you see a gap in the hammers, look down inside, and you may see the hammer butt with its broken shank sitting all lonely! At this stage, just check to see what parts are in the piano, this will save you some cash if all the parts are there.

[Colin Nicholson]

To answer your earlier questions (sorry I also teach piano, so not much time to scan enquiries in great detail!)

The number 17992 - this will be a cabinet/ casework number, usually punched into the wood on the left side - facing the ceiling? We don't have records of these numbers, only serial numbers - and I think Bill explained that there were no records of those either - so just on the piano's looks.

Re: cleaning your piano. When we get pianos in the shop, yes, they sometimes need extensive cleaning. The mechanism needs to be removed (usually 2 wooden turnbuckles on old pianos), or large knurled round bolts screwed in holding the action bracket supports. First remove the front board & fall board, Then take the mech. outside (on a dry day!) and using bellows, blow out all the dust. However if any of the bridle tapes are broken, or look dodgy - I would leave it in the piano, as when you lift the mech. out, the weight of the undercarriages (whippens) are held with these tapes - straddled to a bridle wire (has a twiddly end) attached to the end of the undercarriages). If any are broken or missing, the whippen will just flop down and swing like a pendulum (but depends if there are damper spoons or not) - so best wait till a piano tuner can help. Never use a vacuum cleaner on the mech. or you will never see those tapes again!!

When the mech. is out, then remove the fallboard (the lid that covers the keys) - it should just slide out upwards. This will reveal the undercarriages, rear sections of the keys and their centre pins. With the mech. out, remove the key slip rail (the long strip of wood) - usually 2 screws at either end, or held in place with a pin at either end. Then remove each key and number them 1 - 85, starting in the bass. There will be a whole host of things under the keys - huge clumps of dust, bits of paper, tinsel from a Xmas!! and allsorts. Taking care not to suck up the paper & cloth washers, vacuum every up.
Then vacuum inside the bottom of the piano, pedal mech. Quite a big job, and should take around 30 mins. If you can access the back of the piano, check the back cloth - is it torn? it is there to reduce dust in the back of the piano, but if its torn/ ripped, remove the screws around the back cloth frame, remove the old back cloth (and lots of staples or nails) and clean inside there - this is the rear section of the soundboard. Sometimes the wrest plank can als be viewed here, and if seen, you may see the tuning pins poking through - you can sometimes detect cracks here. If the keys are ivory, buff them up with T-Cut (taking each one out of the piano), and if celluloid/ plastic, just use a damp cloth with a mild solution of detergent...... Fairy will do!! Never use bleach on the keys or household cleaning products like Mr Muscle. To clean the wood, mix half & half linseed oil & vinegar and apply with a cotton cloth or cotton wool - dont use meths, this will 'move' or remove the french polish - if that is the finish.... sorted!

[Colin Nicholson]

Start with linseed oil & vinegar, mix it and shake in a glass jar otherwise it separates - and turns a nice yellow colour - looks like mayonnaise! That will clean the wood. Yes, I use beeswax for the final polish. If the keys are ivory, there will be a join in the middle, so the head & tail of each key have separate pieces of ivory (the join is usually just at the tip of the black keys). If there is no join, it'll be celluloid or plastic. Some pianos of early 1900's had celluloid, so it isn't always guaranteed ivory - usually used on better quality instruments in those days.

The front board is dead easy to remove. Open the top lid fully back. Inside the top of the piano, behind the top board, at each end you will see 2 wooden turnbuckles (like oval latches) - they will be about 45 degrees now as they lock into a wooden tongue or recess. Simply turn each one so they are vertical. Make sure the music rest is reclined, or if its the concertina type, fold it away, then simply pull the board towards you slightly & lift at the same time (might need a sharp tug if piano has been somewhere cold & wood warped). The bottom of the board sits on the fallboard and usually had 2 wooden pegs to locate it. When that is removed, lift the fallboard up - take care where your fingers are, as they may catch on those sharp bridle wires.

Take a photo if you can of the mechanism - fairly close up.

The sconces are easily obtainable, and come complete with candle holders and brackets.... sorry to say, but these have obviously been pinched and sold, as they are often worth more than the piano!
If you drop me an email (aatuners@hotmail.com) I can show you a couple of sconces designs.

I can see you are starting to enjoy this website!!!!

[Colin Nicholson]

You managed to get the front board off, well done.
The back of the piano does not aways reveal cracks, or signs of wear & tear. This is the foundation of the piano - and you will see around 3 or 4 vertical wooden posts - this and the cross sections make the back frame. Depending on the thickness of the wrest plank, the holes are sometimes not drilled all the way through. This is difficult to explain without diagrams.... the wrest plank is the "bread & butter" of your piano. It is made up of laminated hard wood - about 5 sections of wood glued together, and all cut with the grain at different angles, so when the tuning pin enters, it supports them without it cracking (when new). Some wrest planks have many layers of thinner wood. Depending on how far the pins are driven in, and the depth of the hole drilled, sometimes they are visible from the back, however on alot of piano, the wrest plank is glued to the front surface of the back structure and the botton edge of the wrest plank overhangs the front of the top of the soundboard. The cast iron frame is then screwed/ bolted through the soundboard, and into the back posts. The cast iron is frame is usually painted black - and I believe on your piano, it is a three-quarter size cast frame, stopping jut below the wrest plank. On modern pianos, the cast iron frame extends to the top of the piano, and completely covering the wrest plank - known as a "full iron frame"

With all this going on, and one thing overlapping another, and with the wrest plank made up of laminated sections of wood, cracks/ splits and weak glue joints can occur anywhere - and they are impossible to see, until one day we play the piano and it goes horrendously out of tune, or buzzing and rattling noises occur. I hope there are no major defects on your piano, and a tuner will be able to tell when they turn the lever.

If possible, try to match up the broken parts - one of the hammers (and its broken shank) should fit onto that square butt - with the other half of broken shank - the fibres in the wood should join together. The other hammer will join onto the butt thyat may already be inside the mechanism - try aligning the shanks up so you know which one belongs to which. Good thing to get rid of the back cloth - so you can give it a good hoover out....

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi Kari, received your email & photos loud n clear! - please see reply, and I have almost fixed your top G on-line!! - follow my instructions.+

Mix 50/50 with linseed oil & vinegar - don't need much. Say a marmalade sized jar, about 200ml of each should be OK. Shake it vigorously though to look like English mustard, if you leave it for a few secs, it will separate, so each time you apply it - give it a shake with the lid on.

Also, do you have a tuning fork? Although the piano may be well below Concert Pitch (C523,3Hz) or A440 - it would be an idea to see where the strings have settled. If over a semi-tone down, it may not see its true pitch again, and can be tuned at its lower pitch where it has settled - but that's another day!