Overdamper – best avoided?

[Moonlight]

Hi I have started my search for a second-hand upright and have come across an eye pleasing and bank balance pleasing Bluthner 1900 with an overdamper action. I am interested in going quite far out to view and give this piano a test, when the snow clears!

However I have recently bought The Piano Book by Larry Fine and in the book he says pianos with these style actions are to be avoided as they are difficult to service. Basically I would like to have some more opinions on this from you guys in the know.

Should I just forget about getting a piano like this, obviously there isn’t any point of having a piano that can’t be looked after easily. Maybe I should avoid pianos that are this old??

The thing is I’m attracted to these pianos as I like the look of traditional ones and am looking for a full sized upright that I could get for about £2000 that’s a good make. I don’t mind how old it is as long as it’s in good condition. But I’m not too bothered about is appearance, any superficial damage to its looks is ok to me, I’m more concerned with is that its important parts work and it sounds good.

One more question for now (I’m sure I’ll be coming back with more!). Could missing notes on a piano in the bass be a serious problem? I recently tested out an old Ibach and one of the Ds in the bass was temperamental, the problem could be fixed for a few seconds if I used the damper pedal and released it again, it worked ok for a bit and the problem came back.

The piano dealer said it’s a small problem, something to do with something getting caught and the tech would be able to fix it after he goes over the piano if I bought it, I think this old piano had an overdamper action too.

Thanks for any replies!

[Gill the Piano]

Don't worry about Larry Fine - americans get a little hysterical about overdampers (or 'birdcage actions', as they call them) because they just aren't used to them. They aren't hard to service at all if you have a competent tuner/tech. As a rule the overdamper action is not as good as the underdamper - however, the two makes you mention are probably the best of the overdampers, particularly the Bluthner. I tune for a teacher with a Bluthner o/d of about the same vintage as the one you're considering; she loves it and I think it's a lovely old beastie too. That said, you must remember that it IS old, and may need things like new hammer heads, springs and recentring, none of which comes cheap. It depends on your needs and abilities - if you're a high level player/teacher it would be like taking an old Rolls Royce off-roading; nice car, but not suitable for that purpose. You also need to make sure it's at concert pitch - better for your ear, more useful for accompanying if you need to, and a better sales point if you sell it on. It depends what money you're thinking of paying, but to a certain extent you should make sure the hammers, springs, centres, soundboard, wrestplank etc. are up to your requirements and the only way to check this is to get a tuner/tech to look it over for you. Any reputable dealer won't mind you having this done.
O yes, any sticky notes should be dealt with prior to purchase/delivery, but it doesn't sound like a serious problem.

[Barrie Heaton]

I agree with Gill they can be very nice pianos restored quite a few in the 80 -90 and still tuning quite a lot of them but you still need a tuner to look at

The Americans don't like over-dampers because of the way they tune, they use a muting strip for the full length of the piano, in the UK we use a wedge much quicker.


Barrie,

[vernon]

Barrie; include me out of the "we."
I 've always used a strip even on o/dampers.When you do the unisons you just pull it out through the damper wires. Much quicker and easier I find. I can see that non-sighted tuners will be very slick with wedges tho'

Re the o/damper Bluthner of 1900 I would be looking at £500 for a good one after having it inspected by atech.
For the 2kl you'd get something much better.

[Moonlight]

Thanks a lot for all of your replies! Great I’m happy I don’t have to be restricted by what kind of action it has. Maybe I would have been better off getting the Haynes Piano Manual, is that an English book?

Re the o/damper Bluthner of 1900 I would be looking at £500 for a good one after having it inspected by atech. For the 2kl you'd get something much better.

Wow that’s a lot cheaper then what the shop is selling it for, then again would the price of £500 include things like delivery and other things you get when buying from a shop, or is that for the piano alone?

What good makes and ages of piano could you get for 2K or under? To be honest 2K is really my limit, I’m really looking for a piano under 2K. The kind of piano I’m looking for needs to be a full sized upright, medium to heavy touch, mellow tone, strong but not over-powering bass, a make that's reliable and could be sold quite easily when I upgrade.

What are people’s thoughts on Broadwood pianos? I have never played one before but have seen one online for £980 looks nice, but of course I would need to try it.

Gosh this is confusing, so many makes, styles and prices! If any of you guys know any good places to pick up a good used piano in London or Essex (within my price range) that would be great!

[Barrie Heaton]

Gosh this is confusing, so many makes, styles and prices! If any of you guys know any good places to pick up a good used piano in London or Essex (within my price range) that would be great!

Try pianos for sale by shops lota of them on there and some give a 5 year Garr



Barrie,

[Gill the Piano]

If the Bluthner you're looking at costs a lot, then it may have had a lot of work done to it along the lines that I described earlier. Ask exactly what has been done to the strings/action/wrest plank. Or as we've said, take a tuner/tech and get it thoroughly inspected. That's always goiing to be your preferred course of action anyway, because however many questions you ask here, we can't turn you into an experienced tuner/tech!
Broadwoods can be very very old - the oldest English pianomaker, in fact - so beware. There is also a handsome-looking upright called a Collen Broadwood which is a pig to tune and doesn't sound that good when it IS tuned. Another reason for taking a tuner/tech to have a thorough look at any second hand piano in wich you're taking a serious interest. Always ask dealers the terms of their guarantees, which can vary considerably.

[RWAS]

It is very wise advice to have any second hand piano checked by an independent piano technician if you are seriously considering purchasing it. Pianos deteriorate with age and any piano which is more than a hundred years old will need careful scrutiny.

I used to own a Bluthner vertical piano with the "birdcage" action. From the serial number it was built circa 1902. It still had the vestiges of that glorious "Bluthner" sound, but it was in need of attention.

I had it partially restored: new strings, hammers, refurbished action and new keytops. I was a little disappointed with the result as I believe that the replacement parts did not match the quality of the origninal.
The piano still had a "ringing" effect partly because of the overdamper action and possibly because the over damper action had not been expertly restored. However, I would think that an excellently regulated and restored "birdcage" action should not deter anyone from acquiring one of these lovely pianos.

Quality restoration is expensive, but a beautifully restored sample of this model may have a magical sound that even the new vertical Bluthner pianos will not match.

Good luck and I hope you have some milder weather soon!

Robert