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Hi Guys!

I was wondering is there any easy classical pieces out there I could give ago that are the same speed / difficulty as the Beethovens Moonlight adagio, I have almost finished learning it and would like to learn another moving piece after.

I don't really want versions that have been adapted too much I want to play the full versions, but as long as it doesn't have too many weird looking ornaments and symbols in it.

I heard theres a prelude by Bach that sounds similar too moonlight but I don't know the full name of it or how hard it is...is there any easy Chopin stuff?

You can get some arrangements of Mazurka by Chopin in C major or Bb majo which a Grade 3 could play.... but just thinking, what grade level are you at?

Hi there Moonlight

It sounds like we're at a similar level. I've just learnt Bach's Prelude No.1 in C Major which might be the one you're referring to. It's a lovely piece and not too difficult and is also great for warming up.

Good luck!

The General wrote:Hi there Moonlight

It sounds like we're at a similar level. I've just learnt Bach's Prelude No.1 in C Major which might be the one you're referring to. It's a lovely piece and not too difficult and is also great for warming up.

Good luck!

I think the title to this thread needs some second thoughts. We are certainly not talking about beginners if the Moonlight Sonata (1st movement) or the first Bach Prelude are being considered. It sounds as if Moonlight and The General are both being unduly modest if they are playing these.

Having said that, the Bach Prelude is a wonderful piece to learn. I remember that it used to be said that Edward Heath, when he was Prime Minister, would return to Number 10 after a stressful day and play that prelude (either on his Steinway or his clavichord.)

As regards Chopin, some of the Preludes are quite manageable and certainly no harder than the Moonlight. It's probably best to get the complete set and tackle the ones that look easiest, such as those in C minor, E minor and B minor. Some, such as the A major one, will sound very familiar!

there are some beautiful sonatinas by Kuhlau and Clementi. There are some wonderful little shostakovich pieces for first year piano pupils, which are really rewarding. Grieg Lyric pieces are sublime - arietta is a tear jerker and technically not so difficult.

You should also try anything from Bartok's mikrokosmos from books 3 to 5.

You know, there used to be this series of books called Classics to moderns, and then there is the ABRSM More Romantic Pieces for Piano in a graded series, also Dorothy Bradley's Hours With The Masters in 7 volumes is an anthology of graded piano works by the great composers. All these books contain the real versions of pieces written for pianists just starting out. Some beautiful stuff in them too! Go have a look!

Hi Moonlight (and all!)

My tutor introduced me to Bach's Prelude (mentioned above) in my first lesson because the shape of the music is quite repetetive so you only need to be able to read a few notes and recognise the repitition. She also suggested Chopin as a good classical composer for beginners so I'm going to see if I can get a book of pieces by Chopin and I'm definitely going to have a bash at Chopin's Prelude No 4 in E Minor because it looks quite easy (until the middle anyway!) and is a really moving piece!

Cheers,
Kat

markymark wrote:but just thinking, what grade level are you at?

Hi Mark

I'm not sure what grade I am, grade 1? I haven't had any lessons yet and have been 'teaching' myself for about 8 months using John Thomson's adult prep piano book...have managed to play that moonlight tune quite convincingly on my digital piano, I wanted to learn it to get me used to the leger lines in the treble & bass and to improve my sight reading, as its rubbish.

Hi everybody else that replied! Thanks for all your comments!


General & Kat - yes I think that is the Bach prelude I'm talking about I'll go and look for it on the web to have a listen as I have never heard it before!

Joseph - I'll go and check out that Dorothy Bradley book too sounds interesting, & thanks for the other stuff you mentioned.

Descombes - Thanks for name of the Chopin pieces I will also go and have a listen to see what they are like!

Cheers Guys

Moonlight wrote: and to improve my sight reading, as its rubbish.

If you want to improve your sight-reading (and who doesn't?), playing as much varied music as possible is invaluable. However, in addition to that, you should work through a progressive sight reading course. The most useful is Paul Harris's Improve your Sight Reading, published by Faber. The new version, published last month, has been revised to fit the new requirements of the ASBRM exams, whose sight reading changes from next January.

These books have short graded pieces which gradually work up to the standard for each grade. There are also useful hints about how to approach sight reading. Best of all, Paul Harris is a real composer, so you get interesting music, not pages of dry exercises!

Thank you Descombes for the name of the sight reading book, I will need to have a look at it next time I'm in a music shop.

The only sight reading book I have is the ABRSM Grade 1 Sight reading Specimens for 2009, that I occasionally try to test myself with but always take longer the half a minute to work out how to play. Its painful

The General wrote: I've just learnt Bach's Prelude No.1 in C Major which might be the one you're referring to.

Is that one from The Well Tempered Clavier Book 1 ? I just heard it on a cd website and it does sound similar to moonlight in so many ways, or should I say moonlight sounds similar to that one . Sounds much nicer played on a piano.

Just from hearing it, it doesn't seem too dufficult. Looks like thats next on my to do list!

Moonlight wrote:Thank you Descombes for the name of the sight reading book, I will need to have a look at it next time I'm in a music shop.

The only sight reading book I have is the ABRSM Grade 1 Sight reading Specimens for 2009, that I occasionally try to test myself with but always take longer the half a minute to work out how to play. Its painful

Paul Harris's book reaches that stage by the end of the book! Before that he leads you gently up to that standard. He also gives regular examples of tests with specific questions to attempt before you play it. If you get into the habit of asking these sorts of question before beginning to play then the process is much easier.

If my local music shop is anything to go by (and admittedly it's a very large one), Fabers are going all out to give the book a big push; there's a huge display of the books just inside the door.

I know that the Prelude is from The Well Tempered Clavier but not sure which book. It isn't hard to play because it is largely based on broken chords and arpeggios. I was able to sight-read it never mind play it when I was at Grade 1 so I'm sure you'll be fine.

Descombes wrote:Paul Harris's book reaches that stage by the end of the book! Before that he leads you gently up to that standard. He also gives regular examples of tests with specific questions to attempt before you play it.

Paul Harris' sight-reading books are very good aren't they?
I think they are a must-have for piano students throughout the Grade range. Very good material indeed!!

markymark wrote:I know that the Prelude is from The Well Tempered Clavier but not sure which book. It isn't hard to play because it is largely based on broken chords and arpeggios. I was able to sight-read it never mind play it when I was at Grade 1 so I'm sure you'll be fine.

It's Book 1. After No 1 they get harder! Very impressed if you could play it when you were at Gr 1 standard; you must have been quite a prodigy!!

markymark wrote:I know that the Prelude is from The Well Tempered Clavier but not sure which book. It isn't hard to play because it is largely based on broken chords and arpeggios. I was able to sight-read it never mind play it when I was at Grade 1 so I'm sure you'll be fine.

It is from the WTC 1.

http://innig.net/music/inthehands/2005/01/25/68/

Bach's Minuet in G is also a nice easy piece. It was one of the first I learned.

markymark wrote: Paul Harris' sight-reading books are very good aren't they?
I think they are a must-have for piano students throughout the Grade range. Very good material indeed!!

Exactly! He treats Sight Reading as something which can be learnt, by gradually increasing the level of difficulty. In the old days the suggestion seemed to be that you could either sight read or you couldn't, with no attempt at teaching how!!

Descombes wrote:It's Book 1. After No 1 they get harder! Very impressed if you could play it when you were at Gr 1 standard; you must have been quite a prodigy!!

Don't say things like that in front of Dave! He'll end up changing his signature again!

Umm... not really, I'm just good at picking out patterns in music which is why my sight-reading is good. As you'll know, the Prelude has lots of that in it!

Descombes wrote:Exactly! He treats Sight Reading as something which can be learnt, by gradually increasing the level of difficulty. In the old days the suggestion seemed to be that you could either sight read or you couldn't, with no attempt at teaching how!!

Ohhh, Des! Don't start me on THAT topic. Besides teaching by grades, poor teaching of sight-reading is my pet gripe. Absolutely nonsensical that sight-reading can't be taught. I would agree that people do naturally lean more towards memorised performance than sight-reading and vice-versa but sight-reading CAN be learned!

Moonlight, you could have a look out for Robert Schumann's 'Soldiers' March'. This is a nice little piece written in G major.

Other ideas:
Ode to Joy from the Ninth Symphony
Canon in D major
"Für Elise" Bagatelle in A Minor

Hi all...

Good tip about the sight reading book by Paul Harris... I am going to look that one out too. After all, who doesn't want to improve their sight reading?

Do people really think sight reading can't be taught/learned? Isn't that rather like saying you can't learn or teach the reading of a language like French or Chinese? Load of nonsense!

Cheers,
Kat

markymark wrote: I was able to sight-read it never mind play it when I was at Grade 1 so I'm sure you'll be fine.

I sometimes get a bit confused with the word 'sight reading' surely if you can sight read a piece well you can work out how to play it?

Or does the defnition of the word mean you can recite all the notes in that piece but not play it at sight OR does it mean you can play it straight off even though you haven't praticed it ??

Everyday I go though a piece I might not have played but recite all the notes to drum them into my head, but I don't play it. I often browse though music to see what its like, but If I sat down to play it it would take me a long time to work out how to play, as I'm still trying to recognise the intervals.

Thanks Mark for the other suggestions

I have Ode to joy, but don't think it sounds that nice on the piano I have Canon in D and I can play qiute a few bars of it, but I'm too scared to play it as it doesn't have the finger signs, and I don't want to write down any weird fingerings for it, unless I have a teacher to tell me if its ok.

I printed of that Bach prelude from: http://www.sheetzbox.com/piano/sheets/5 ... hords.html

But it has mordent signs in the bass and I'm not too sure how to approach them, and some of them look a bit weird as if they have a hanging off bit on them!? at the end of bar 3.

Also I printed out Schumann's 'Scenes From Childhood' from: http://www.free-piano-sheet-music.net/P ... _Lands.pdf

and its very strange, there isnt a bass clef but an alto clef where the bass celf shoud be confusing especillay as its called free piano sheet music!

I might as well go to a proper music shop as the internet brings up some weird stuff!

Katmid wrote:Do people really think sight reading can't be taught/learned? Isn't that rather like saying you can't learn or teach the reading of a language like French or Chinese? Load of nonsense!

It is basically like that. People do have a tendency to be either better performers or better sight-readers but that is no excuse for not developing you short-comings! Teachers have generally recognised this but too many have opted out thinking that their pupil "is just like that" and nothing will overcome that incapability as they see it.

of course sight reading can be taught.

and here is another bomb for you all - I think perfect pitch is something that most people have potential for and can be developed. Have a wee discussion on it and i'll put my two pence in later

That's a shame, Mark. I was an IT trainer in my last job and consider, when someone isn't very good at something, that it's simply an area for improvement, not something they 'just can't do'. Sure, some people will find certain skills easier to pick up than others, but that's no excuse for a tutor (or trainer) not taking the time and effort.

joseph wrote:of course sight reading can be taught.

and here is another bomb for you all - I think perfect pitch is something that most people have potential for and can be developed. Have a wee discussion on it and i'll put my two pence in later

Is perfect pitch a desirable/useful thing to have? It's always assumed so, but I'm not so sure. Great for singers of course, and for players of some orchestral instruments, but for pianists? We can't finely adjust the intonation as we play!

And I have many friends with PP who find it painful to listen to Baroque music played at authentic pitch or something which has been transposed. Some even have to transpose as they listen.

Having said that, I agree that it can be taught, especially at an early age, but why bother?

I think it can be a very useful thing to have, it is very helpful when it comes to memorizing pieces and learning works quickly, and of course it can improve sight reading, because you can build a clearer mental picture of the music in your preparation time.

As for not coping with baroque music etc, that only happened to me once in a dictation exam! I notated everything out a semitone, but I passed the exam because the examiner realized what had happened.

Since then, I have learned that you have to get used to the pitch you are listening to, get used to pianos that are out of tune - perfect pitch after all is just memory, and memories are rarely perfect! Sometimes I play on pianos tuned to 440, some 442, my own piano is usually flat as a pancake by the time the tuner comes - a couple of months of inclement weather, some central heating, and lots of pounding see to it! But yes, I think PP is useful.

I'm re learning Mozart sonata K.570 in B-flat. I shouldn't really post this in the easy pieces section as I find Mozart so incredibly difficult. Its so deceptive. At first glance it appears as though it will be at least technically (mechanically that is) easy, however there are those little twists and turns that are a right B&*tard to get! Not to mention trying to get the tone right. . .. i'm frustrated.

joseph wrote:I think it can be a very useful thing to have, it is very helpful when it comes to memorizing pieces and learning works quickly, and of course it can improve sight reading

I heard about this guy who is obviously very talented and can play most wind instruments and had perfect pitch. He was also a conductor and could point out an instrument that was flat or sharp as they were playing through sections of their pieces. Apparently working with him was nerve-wrecking because his perfect pitch became an obsession and it took forever for him to settle into rehearsals because he kept finding instruments marginally out of tune so that they were practically undectectable to the most discerning ear - but he noticed! It must be awful to have that level of perfect pitch. How can any musician ensure that their instrument is absolutely and flawlessly in tune??

joseph wrote:of course sight reading can be taught.

and here is another bomb for you all - I think perfect pitch is something that most people have potential for and can be developed. Have a wee discussion on it and i'll put my two pence in later

I completely understand all joseph's points in favour of perfect pitch and I'm sure it is likely to develop if it is worked at in early life - or even if there is intensive contact with music in early years. (This is purely anecdotal, but it seems that many of those with PP were cathedral standard choristers in their childhood!)

However we learn to live with or without it. I do not know any musicians who are desperately upset about their lack of it.

Here's another question in the same spirit as J's on perfect pitch. Is it an advantage for a pianist to have hands the size of Rachmaninov's? Mine are not huge and I have rarely found it a disadvantage. Indeed, I have teenage pupils of both sexes with enormously long fingers which seem to constantly get in the way! Someone once said that it's not the length of the fingers or the overall stretch that's important, but the flexibility and stretch between the inner fingers.

Any suggestions?

I've got a stretch of an 11th, and I don't know if I find it an advantage because I don't know what it feels like to have small hands. There is a boy I teach with enormous hands, but they're not very flexibile, so its not the size but flexibility that is important. I mean by that, the ability to remain free. I knew a 4'11 chinese girl at college, with a stretch of just over an octave, who gave the most marvelous rendition of rachmaninov's first concerto!

My stretch is just about a 9th I just realised but I really need to stretch, I can now do octaves quite comfortably.

I realised this while playing Moonlight adagio, in bar 16 and 52 I need to play a 9th, in bar 52 you need to play C# and D natural an octave apart so I find it rather difficult, and get an aching hand a bit.

Whats your stretch anyone else?

We could do! mine would look a bit awkward!

Just thinking with all these pics of our hands etc, It would be nice to make an arty farty kind of book about pianists, like a photo abulm of their hands or something . You know the kind of books you can get that show dog owners with their dogs and the photography is really nice. I wish there was a photography book about all kinds of pianists ( professional & amateur, or just pain nuts ) with their pianos.

No, I never new about that! , I would love to bumb into one!

I think I did hear about the 'street piano' on the news, and I waited to watch them do the news about it, but they never got around to talking about it ! I waited for ages

I have a stretch of a tenth. I could just about manage an 11th but that is really pushing it and I'd just be reaching the note and no more. There are special exercises you can do to increase your stretch but as someone else has said already, it's the physical condition of the hand that is important. Long, lazy fingers, to me, are more of a hinderance than short agile fingers.

I can comfortably manage an octave but only one or two notes beyond that really hurts my hands. I have the added disadvantage that I have a tremor so because I haven't been playing long my fingers sometimes do strange things I don't tell them to do, or don't do things I do tell them to do! LOL!

Hi Moonlight,
A book I really love that's full of accessible but lovely pieces is Bach's Little Preludes and Fugues. The one in C minor (BWV 999) is particularly nice. I'd recommend the Henle edition of this collection.
All the best,
Elaine

Hi Elaine,

Thanks for the recommendation, Looks like I'm going to need to make a shoping list for all these books people are mentioning!

Heres Bach's Prelude No.1 in C Major, if there is any other people who want to learn it.

http://www.allpianosheetmusic.com/compo ... c_bach.htm

If you own a Clavinova, its sounds nicer played using the 'grand piano 2' voice, imo.

To be honest, if I had never heard it before I gave it ago I would have more trobble playing it. I have only just stared to learn it today, I can play about 6 ? bars.

If you think thats scary then just don't look at the fugue, now that is scary! I'm not going to give that a go it looks so hard!

Honestly I didn't feel very 'advanced' when I was in my piano lesson!

anyway how are you? I havn't spoken to you for a while

Quak Quak!

I like the way people up north say ducks / ducky its nice. Not sure what to call you, we have no intresting words down here! The only ones I know are teenage yoof talk

mmmmmm Curry! What one is it?

Yes I am looking forward to us going to Chapples and playing around on the pianos! They only sell Yamahas and Kembles.

Sorry Dave! but you are more 'up north' then I am I guess.

Oh yes you will find plently of Starbucks ( never been in one, only to use the toilet ) in London and Prets they are everywhere!

Yes Soho is intresting, theres lots of music shops but not really for piano
, mostly for guitars, but its still nice to see. Foyles ( the big book shop ) is on the way to Soho I think. I have never been to see how big their music book section is! Then theres China Town always nice to go there!

one of my favorite curries is Korma or Rogan Josh, however I can't eat the chicken one any more as I promised myself I will only eat free range or halal chickens from now on...

Hey if anyone wants to learn some Chopin preludes or other stuff then look no further :

http://www.chopinmusic.net/en/works/preludes/

If your a ( more 'advanced' ) beginner then try the Prelude No 4 in E minor Op 28, sounds lovely, reminds me of a Stella Artois advert of something!

joseph wrote: Grieg Lyric pieces are sublime - arietta is a tear jerker and technically not so difficult.

YES! Tell me about it! Yeah, Arietta doesn't sound too difficult and sounds lovely.

I would love to be able to play Melodie ( Op 47 No 3 ) but its too hard for me at the moment sadly . I just love that irresistible rhythm and solemn tune; and its just great the way it completely changes mood, and sounds kind of bluesy or jazzy. Its like two types of music in one!

Grieg Cow calling will bring back memories for the older ones...........

I downloaded it but it is a fair bit too advanced for me. Bugger, cos I love it.