Need Help deciding U1 Silent or Something else.....

[DMathew]

Hello
I've been a long time lurker on this forum. I've read many of the posts regarding the U1 and had almost made up my mind that this is what I should be going for. But having finally visited a few piano shops and tinkered on their pianos i am no longer certain.
I am very much a novice. I did have my heart set on a new u1 slient. (so i won't irritate the wife while i'm learning). But the dealers I went to pretty much tried to put me off the this and entice me to buy the Friedrich (might have been the Carat )110 Grotrian Steinweg. I did find the sound and feel of the piano to be amazing, but then I don't really know how to play.(6 months experience learning on a VERY OLD Clavinova) It is a more expensive piano but not beyond reach ......

Any advise would be of help
Thanks

Dave

[genaa]

Hiya,

In the end it comes down to which piano you like the tone and feel of best. Try and play as many different instruments within your budget as possible to get an idea of what you like / don't like and if necessary, see if you can recruit a more experienced player to put various instruments through their paces, so you can stand back and listen. It may be worth taking your wife with you as well, so that if she likes a particular piano as well as you, she will enjoy your learning to play, rather than you feeling you need to don the headphones and play silently

Although it is based very much on the experience of American piano tuners/technicians collated opinions, The Piano Book by Larry Fine, has a very useful run through of piano manufacturers and their instruments, which you may find helpful in deciding on different instruments in your area to try.

Around the U1 budget area I would certainly recommend looking at Kawai and Kemble pianos, both of which have different tone to the Yamaha and both of which can be fitted with a silent system.

Whatever you decide I am sure you will end up with an instrument to treasure Don't be afraid to take your time - piano shopping is fun and casting a wider net means you are more likely to find the piano you really love.

Happy shopping

[vernon]

kawai every time

[Grenache]

I think I've probably mentioned before, but I was also comparing the Kawai vs Yamaha with the silent option.

The touch of the Kawai with the silent option was exteremely heavy and playing it was very hard work. Although the Yamaha was slightly heaver with the silent compared to the same model without, it was still comforable to play. In the end I chose the U1 with the SG silent option, and I'm happy with my choice.

[Openwood]

I got a YUS1 for school last year and it's been nothing but bloody trouble. The sensor rail for the silent system was faulty, meaning that the middle two octaves wouldn't work in silent mode. It took Yamaha 7 months to replace it and now the notes (in silent mode) are sounding unevenly or not at all, so I'm back at square one, waiting for the supplier to sort it out AGAIN. I wouldn't touch another Yamaha silent with a bargepole. I haven't tried Kawais but from the many positive comments on this site it sounds like they're getting the edge on Yamaha and good luck to 'em.

Whatever Silent system you eventually get I would make a point of asking what happens if things go wrong, and if the salesman tells you it won't go wrong please do knee him in the nuts with my compliments.

[PianoGuy]

But the dealers I went to pretty much tried to put me off the this and entice me to buy the Friedrich (might have been the Carat )110 Grotrian Steinweg. I did find the sound and feel of the piano to be amazing, but then I don't really know how to play.

The dealer almost certainly recommends the Grotrian because he gets a better margin on it. The Friedrich is indeed a very nice piano, but so is the Yamaha. The trouble with Yamaha is that there are so many crap dealers and internet hawkers discounting them, it means even the good dealers are tempted to follow suit, and there's no money in it for them to spend time on preparation and after-sales service. Kawai are excellent if you like them, but they have poor resale values because they're less well known.

My guess is that our Openwood bought a Yam at a low price and the dealer who probably made less profit on it than on a bag of Percy Dalton's nuts can't be arsed to sort him out, probably 'putting it in the hands of Yamaha' who basically don't really do house-calls, rather they rely on their dealers to do it. Catch 22. A shame, because they actually do have a load of staff at Milton Keynes who are technically competent. Contrast this with Kawai who have no real UK technical support other than a nice willing sales rep and their dealers. The difference is most Kawai dealers charge decent money for their instruments and can afford to put some effort into back-up. A Yamaha bought at a top dealer at a sensible price can be a superb choice, but finding a good Yamaha dealer is less easy than first it looks.

I would consider all makes suggested so far, but looking at your level of playing, ask yourself whether you really need to spend so much on a first piano. You can get very good results from a decent Chinese piano such as a Perzina, Brodmann or Wendl & Lung (in that order) and spend not much more than 2.5k.

[vernon]

try a look at Steinmayers which are excellent qualiity all over, down to the castors.
The do need proper preparation so make sure you get a competent dealer who will attend to that as a matter of course

[PianoGuy]

try a look at Steinmayers which are excellent qualiity all over, down to the castors.
The do need proper preparation so make sure you get a competent dealer who will attend to that as a matter of course

Not my immediate first choice, but nice effort put into the celeste mechanism! The 6-octave version scores by being unique in its class now though I think!

[DMathew]

Many thanks for all the advise so far.

I know it does sound like overkill considering my skill level, but, Still looking at the piano as along term investment in my family. This is why I was looking at the U1 in the first place.
In the short time I have learnt to play, I enjoyed it immensely. I'm now in the position where I can finally afford it, and more importantly have the space to put it.

I can see that I really need to get out there and see as many pianos as I can before making up my mind.

(getting past the embarassment of playing badly in a shop seems to be my biggest hurdle.)

Dave

[PianoGuy]

I know it does sound like overkill considering my skill level, but, Still looking at the piano as along term investment in my family. This is why I was looking at the U1 in the first place.
In the short time I have learnt to play, I enjoyed it immensely. I'm now in the position where I can finally afford it, and more importantly have the space to put it.

Fair play to you then!

Try a load before you buy to get the best idea possible.

Where in the UK are you?

[DMathew]

In bromley Kent

[Openwood]

My guess is that our Openwood bought a Yam at a low price

I know, I know.

[Openwood]

finding a good Yamaha dealer is less easy than first it looks.

Once again Piano Guy hits the nail on the head! I stupidly allowed myself to be seduced by full-on advertising. Only myself to blame

DMathew - I'd certainly take the advice from PG et al here and avoid the big discounters. Oh, the shame

[PianoGuy]

finding a good Yamaha dealer is less easy than first it looks.

Once again Piano Guy hits the nail on the head! I stupidly allowed myself to be seduced by full-on advertising. Only myself to blame

DMathew - I'd certainly take the advice from PG et al here and avoid the big discounters. Oh, the shame

Never mind!

I'll buy you a pint should we ever meet!!

[Openwood]

I'll buy you a pint should we ever meet!!

I'll drink to that

[DMathew]

Have come round to 2 choices
The U1 or the PX124nt.

I know the U1 is highly favoured here but are there any issues with the PX124 that make it a turkey.
I liked the look of this piano over the U1 and the sound at the dealers did appeal to me more than the U1 I tried at the store.

[Grenache]

and the sound at the dealers did appeal to me more than the U1 I tried at the store.

Remember that the accoustics of the shop can make a difference, if these pianos are in different shops.

The U1 I played at the shop sounded bright there but more mellow when I got it home.

[DMathew]

They were both at the same dealer.

[PianoGuy]

Have come round to 2 choices
The U1 or the PX124nt.

I know the U1 is highly favoured here but are there any issues with the PX124 that make it a turkey.
I liked the look of this piano over the U1 and the sound at the dealers did appeal to me more than the U1 I tried at the store.

The PX124 is basically a U1 anyway. Same frame and action, but being a British made model, it features a European spruce soundboard which does indeed sound different from the definitive Japanese U1. The casework is beefier, arguably better made and indeed, the piano is certainly prettier to my eyes too, dispensing with the useless and ugly slow-fall system. It's marginally cheaper too. If you like it then go for it, but buy that actual piano, and don't be fobbed off with one you've not played, heard and approved since they're all different to a degree- often enough to make one example appear significantly nicer than another.


You're also supporting the remains of the British piano industry as far as you can these days!

[Openwood]

dispensing with the useless and ugly slow-fall system

Hmmmmm - personally I quite like having it, but that's probably down to the generations of kids who found slamming fallboards shut to be the very height of originality and wit. Oh, how I laughed.

[DMathew]

Grenache
When did you purchase your U1?
I am looking quite seriously at the K3 with a silent fitting. According to the dealer Kawai have just changed the silent system on their pianos. and the millenium action did seem to be a fairly light touch.

I am a novice and I'm only just realising the difference in tones having tinkered and hurt the ears of the dealers . So I don't think I know what a heavy touch or light touch means.

I definetly like the tone of the Kawai over the Yamaha but I am worried about the "Heavy feel" you described

[Grenache]

Grenache
When did you purchase your U1?
I am looking quite seriously at the K3 with a silent fitting. According to the dealer Kawai have just changed the silent system on their pianos. and the millenium action did seem to be a fairly light touch.

I definetly like the tone of the Kawai over the Yamaha but I am worried about the "Heavy feel" you described

Hi Dave,

I went shopping in November last year (2007), and all the pianos I tried were new ones. The dealer had two identical Kawais apart from the silent option, and I tried two Yamahas again with- and without, though they didn't have the U1 silent in stock, so that was ordered specially.

I don't know how long the Kawais had been in the showroom, but I got the impression that they hadn't been there that long. They seemed to have a steady turnover, as a couple of the pianos for sale I tried on my first visit had been sold by the time of my second visit two weeks later.

The dealer himself also commented about the weight of the Kawai when I mentioned it - he said that he also found it very heavy going.

Hope this helps!

G

[DMathew]

thanks for the info.
I think i have to go and try them both out again. Problem is finding a dealer with both in stock so i can compare.

A dealer that did have them both instock was selling the units at a tremendous discount but on questioning did not seem to interested in providing any after sales care. (Not even the tuning after the piano settled in at home) So i'm afraid that i don't feel that comfortable buying from him.

I'd rather purchase at a higher price from someone that seemed alot more genuine and keen to provide the care. (i have found that person but they did not have the unit in stock to tryout, also doesn't deal with yamaha).

Feel a bit cheeky going back to the first dealer just to tryout the pianos and then walkout.

Dave

[Grenache]

If you quite like the Kawai, I would suggest going to try out the Kawai with the silent option, and play it for as long as the dealer will let you. I found it heavy going quite quickly, and even after playing for only 10 minutes my hands were hurting. I have small hands anyway, so that keyboard was really hard work.

But do take time to choose the right one, as you can't easily return it once you get it home!

[joseph]

Kawais tend to verge on the heavy side, some are heavy in a beautiful way, others are just plain uncomfortable. My guess is thats down to the regulation though.

[DMathew]

I've done it

It's a Kawai K5. Should be delievered sunday week. Can't stand having to wait. Bought the showroom model that I liked and did sound beautiful.

Finally decided to dispense with the silent options and put that money into the piano instead. The vendor was very good to me and went through the pros and cons of all his pianos. I didn't know that the introduction of the silent system would mean a compromise on touch whether the silent system was on or off.

I found the sound of the kawai's more to my taste than the yamahas.

The richness of the K5 was that much nicer than the K3. I did try the zimmerman Z3 but found the sound a bit muted and muffled though they did seem to have a better build and finish to them. The Z1 was out of my budget though it was very nice.

Can't wait to see it in my home.

Many thanks to all of you and this fantastic forum. Going in to the dealers with that knowledge helped me immensely, though it must have irritated them alot.

[genaa]

lovely piano you have there I know what you mean about waiting hehe ....

[Grenache]

Hi Dave,

Glad to have helped. I'm sure you will enjoy it. I know what you mean about waiting too, but it will be worth it.

Let us know how you get on once it arrives!

Best regards

G