George Russell Upright, date?

[heavypetal]

Probably not one for the purists but here she is;



It's a straight-strung overdamper by George Russell of Stanhope St, London.

The piano is currently settling into her new home and then hopefully in a couple of weeks my local technician can come and try to bring her upto A440!

I'm trying to find out a little history. The serial on the casing and soundboard is 21584. According to what little research I could find on the internets I've managed to piece together this.

1900: No. 1649
1915: No. 21584 - My best guess.
1930: No. 39191 - WW1 could have related to low no's?
1939: No. 128750

The action is in reasonable condition it appears, however the piano was certainly in need of a dire clean - there was about 10mm of dust and newspaper bits on the keybed. Unfortunately the keyslip had detached but this was quickly resolved with changing the (equiv.) M3 x 15 screws with M3 x 20.



Just waiting to get her pitch raised and tuned, hopefully that will go without trouble and until then I can try and find out as much about the piano as possible - starting with how old is it!?

Thanks!

[Bill Kibby]

Stanhope isn't much help, they were there from the 1860s at least until the 1914 war. A lot of rubbish is talked in books and websites about dates of piano numbers. Russell's were around 19000 in 1900, but if you email me a clearer picture, unobstructed by other things, I may be able to estimate. Have you read the Datemarks page at www.PianoGen.org yet?

[heavypetal]

Bill,

I read with interest your Datemarks page and scoured the Piano over.

I noticed "18449" stamped into both of the first two keys, whereas all the other keys are numbered contiguously. I have added some clearer pictures!

[Bill Kibby]

Although serial numbers do occasionally appear on the keys, most key numbers have no practical use in establishing the date. I see that you removed all the keys at one point, so presumably you would have noticed any marks on them. Apart from the strange re-decoration, I imagine this might be from the twenties, but London pianos changed so little from the twenties to the fifties, it is difficult to judge. The best clue I can see is that the top bridge is wooden, and the latest-known examples of these are from 1928, so I feel confident in saying it is no later than that. The action looks like it may be a German import, which would suggest that it was before the 1914 war, but I can't see it clearly enough. Again, you have removed the action, so I expect you would have seen any markings on the back of it.

[joseph]

I like the decoration! Its fun, although I wont be doing it to my pianos!

[heavypetal]

Thanks very much for your help,

Although I still don't have something exact I do feel like I'm getting somewhere..! It should be getting pitch raised on monday so I shall pester my tuner to have a look aswell.

[Grenache]

The photo of the action looks like the Herrburger-Brooks action in my 1926 Kessels. I'll need to dig out photos of mine, as I no longer have that piano, just to see if my recollection is accurate.

[heavypetal]

The photo of the action looks like the Herrburger-Brooks action in my 1926 Kessels. I'll need to dig out photos of mine, as I no longer have that piano, just to see if my recollection is accurate.

An interesting lead, if there is a specific shot or angle of the action you would like to see, let me know and I'll nip and take it.

[Grenache]

Hi, I've just looked at old photos, no, it's not identical, it's similar style frame round the top of the action, but the split is in a different place and the felts are different colour. Sorry!

[Bill Kibby]

It's almost certainly French or German, but not clear enough to say without close-ups of the dampers.

[heavypetal]

I think I've resized these pics correctly, here goes..! Been on a number hunt over the instrument again and keep finding more!

Onto the 'action shots'.. (see what I did there?)













And for the bonus prize, lets try and decode what this says!



Scott

[Bill Kibby]

Sorry, I can't see anything that helps me work out any more than I already said.

[heavypetal]

Update for anybody following..

She's being tuned tomorrow, hopefully all will go to plan as it's the first tuning in five years.

I've had to rather sharply learn the art of rebushing the hammers at the main pin where they attach to the action. I had about 10 sticky keys and it was driving me mad. After dismantling each key one by one, I removed the metal pin, then took about .5mm of the housing and reassembled and after reassembly, no sticky key. I'll finish it of by using graphite or silicon lubricant, I guess this will help keep the troublesome keys free.

I'd rather have a piano technician do a "proper job" but there is no cash to finance that sort of work so this will do.

[Bill Kibby]

I don't know what you mean by housing, but do beware of making them too loose, this will also cause sticking, and is harder to correct.

[vernon]

Bill Kibby has the gen on this one.
I can't comment of the wisdom of nurturing what is obviously an early 1920s s/strung, but as a matter of archive interest George Russell ,who were an ordinary middle of the road maker, produced several transposing pianos. In these, there was a large knob under the keyboard which shifted the whole action to right or left so that what was a C became a C sharp and so on up or down for few notes.This allowed everything to be played in C !
There is a piano trade folk myth (?)that Irving Berlin had one as C was the only key he could manage. Anyone, heard that ? I've had a couple in my time

[Bill Kibby]

Russell transposers are more common than one might imagine, but I don't know that Berlin's was a Russell. It is in the Smithsonian. He didn't play in C, he played BADLY in F# - all on the black notes, and if you hear him murdering "Blue Skies" you might wonder how his songs ever got to be played properly! Imagine playing the first ten bars of "Always" then having to yank the leyboard along to a different position to play the next bit, and so on!

[Bill Kibby]

I can't see any way of progressing with the piano, but if you are up to removing the three main parts of the action of one note, you could put them into a scanner and email them to me, and they may provide clues.

[heavypetal]

Sorry for the delay in the picture, I didn't notice a reply to the topic.

[Bill Kibby]

Nothing there that's distinctive, it is a fairly standard action.

[heavypetal]

I've still had no luck in finding out any further information on the pianos age, however I have now ordered a full set of the tapes (all seem to be rotten, repaired with string or cracked) and all the damper springs (80% are failed) along with a number of other odds and ends in the action and a full compliment of felt from my friend who has a very healthy obsession with the lovely fuzzy stuff..!

I expect my tuner may think I'm crazy but after everything has been rebuilt by myself and then regulated and tuned again by him, the total cost will be around £100 (this includes collection of the piano, pitch raising and all the springs/tapes and felt + lubricant etc) and whilst it may seem a bit OTT for a piano of this nature, hopefully it will provide me and the next owner with some reliable service.

It was pitch raised on the 27th August, however it is still not upto concert pitch as it was two tones down on the tuners computer thingy last time. Has it been long enough to allow it to settle and adjust to the tension - or should I wait a bit longer before asking him to come and tune it again with the hope of getting it upto concert pitch?..

I'm quite enjoying having a piano in the house now.. bless my neighbours.