Cheap Yamaha 'U's - are they worth the risk?

[tog]

Hi All

First off - I am not a pianist, my wife is and teaches novices - I refer you to the question about a Woodchester Arlingham Tudor a couple of days ago.

I can go to Millers Music Centre in Cambridge and buy a used, 'reconditioned' U1 or U3 for 4 to 5 thousand - ouch. They come with a decent warranty - it may be as much as five years.

However, having trawled around the net I find there are quite a few people that will sell a U1 for around 1750 upto 2500 for a U3 (or have I got that the wrong way round?) The sellers of these pianos claim that they are from exactly the same source as the ones in Millers and the other more moderatley priced dealers around the country. They also claim that most dealers just tart up the cases to make them shine and look pretty and don't do much to the internals beyond tuning them and tend to rely on the fact that these used Yamahas that are supposedly imported from Japan where they have been used in music schools and had very little use. Apparently the Japanese replace pianos by age rather than hours of use and condition - allegedly.

Is all this true?

Are the pianos being sold at 1750 really the same ones but with the odd scratch here and there?

Are these pianos to be viewed with considerable suspicion? If so what is a reasonable price to be paying for a Yamaha U1 or U3? (I'm just a sucker for those sexy black cases!) I suspect this may be one of those how long is a piece of string type questions (



regards



Dudley

[PianoGuy]

Millers are a bit steep on their prices if they're grey imported (rather than imported by Yamaha UK) but OK-ish if they're genuine cherished one-owner UK-market pianos, but these are very rare so I'll assume they're imports. If so, I would be tempted to offer a grand less. I know what they will have paid for them, so I know they can do it!

In answer to your question, there are a handful of importers of grey market U1/U3s and most dealers buy from them. They are sold in various grades, so an A+ grade will be near mint and will have had light domesic use, and a C- will be an old woofer. It is quite possible to tart up a half decent C grader to look shiny and this is the speciality of the eBay seller and the part-time dealer. Avoid. You may get a bargain, but you are just as likely not, since the vendor will have little more of a clue than you.

Millers will probably have selected A grade pianos. These will be younger (look for a serial number of more than 4 million, 5 million even better, and at those prices!....) and they will have had any problems ironed out, and possibly the notorious spring loops on the hammers replaced.

Have a look at this thread and the couple of links within it if you're really keen, and you'll get a feel for some of the things to look for!

Happy hunting!

PG

[nic]

I am also considering buying a yamaha U1 and have read the posts so far. I have tried a rather ropey U1 priced at £2400 immediately dropped to £2000; several 1970's U1's priced at £2500 + £150 for delivery and tuning. There is another shop that has quoted £1700 for a 1977 model to 2400 for a 1997 model -I am going to try next week. All are Japanese imports. What worries me is the massive variation in prices. Reading the posts should I assume that the cheaper shop are reconditioning c grades and the more expensive are A's ? Any advice gratefully received !!

[Barrie Heaton]

. What worries me is the massive variation in prices. Reading the posts should I assume that the cheaper shop are reconditioning c grades and the more expensive are A's ? Any advice gratefully received !!

All second-hand pianos will vary in price some dealers import a container full other's will buy form other retailers 1 -2 at a time. So each retailer will buy them at different prices also you can take 3 1970 U1 one may be OK the other 2 may need lots of work I seen a 1977 U3 the other week it had new bass strings, new loops and new key bushing and at £2500 it was a very good buy and was snapped up

Barrie,

[nic]

Thanks Barrie some useful info. I know that both shops get container deliveries - I think all will become clearer when I try ones at the other shop - I think thay were very honest with me - which serial numbers etc to expect and have seen positive feedback from other posters.

[Barrie Heaton]

You may wish to look at the New Yamaha B3 122cm and selling at 2399.00 at the usual discounting shops RRP £3199.00

This piano may put a big dint in the imported U1s priced around £2500 mark

Not tuned one yet so I can't comment yet on what they are like but I bet they blow a lot the imported second-hand 1970 - 80 U1s away I believe that is Yamaha's intention

but UK retailers will not get them till May

Barrie,

[markymark]

How would a P121NT stand up against a used U1? Don't they have the same basic insides as the U1, save for some differences in cabinet design? I opted to buy a P121 instead of a U1 almost year ago because it took up less space, but I really couldn't discern a difference in touch and in sound quality when I compared them in the shop.

If blindfolded, I couldn't have told them apart by playing only.

[PianoGuy]

How would a P121NT stand up against a used U1? Don't they have the same basic insides as the U1, save for some differences in cabinet design? I opted to buy a P121 instead of a U1 almost year ago because it took up less space, but I really couldn't discern a difference in touch and in sound quality when I compared them in the shop.

The P121 is identical to a U1N bar the casework, and the cheaper P121 is far prettier. The Japanese U1 is of similar design but built to different standards and with differently sourced materials.

A used U1 of a decent vintage (around s/n 5 to 5.5 million would trounce the P121 significantly. A new one could also sound better depending on preparation.

As for older U1s, I would say that most sub 3 million will be inferior, but there will always be exceptions.