I have 500 GBP for a piano - what will it buy me?

gioia · Post by **gioia** » 21 Jan 2008, 23:09

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum. I've just read some of the threads about buying a piano and now I'm scared!!

I've never bought a piano before. I played as a child and would like to take up the hobby again.

I have saved up 500 quid for a piano. I would like an 'old style' looking upright piano. I believe buying a 2nd hand piano can be dodgy? Could I get something new for 500 pound?

Could anyone tell me which brands are best and where I would purchase it from?

If anyone could help I would be really grateful.

Gioia

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 21 Jan 2008, 23:21

Much though I hate to say it for £500 you probably better off getting a digital as unless you are very lucky and get a good private buy you wont get much for £500.

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 22 Jan 2008, 00:00

Hmm, the problem is that for 500 quid you are almost bound to end up with more problems than the instrument is worth, quite literally.

Perhaps someone out there knows of a decent used piano in your area for that amount - I wouldn't completely rule it out, but I fear it may come down to being very very lucky. Still, you never know. We have an 'ecycle' scheme in my area and a servicable Kemble piano was snapped up for free by some lucky punter a few months ago.

If not, yes, a digital piano would at least be a start and you will probably be able to sell it on when you're in a position to buy an acoustic. A second hand Clavinova (Yamaha digital piano) would certainly come within your budget. My advice is that you should definitely try to get something with weighted keys, otherwise it's a false economy - you're storing up problems for yourself when you do get onto an acoustic (the touch is so different).

Good luck with your search, I hope you find something.

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 22 Jan 2008, 08:02

Or hire for say 6 months whilst you save a bit more. Most piano dealers will allow a percentage of the hire fees to be put against the cost of the new or 2nd hand piano.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 22 Jan 2008, 21:30

mdw wrote:Or hire for say 6 months whilst you save a bit more. Most piano dealers will allow a percentage of the hire fees to be put against the cost of the new or 2nd hand piano.

Indeed, but it also means that you'll end up paying list price with no discounts.

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 22 Jan 2008, 22:02

PianoGuy wrote:
mdw wrote:Or hire for say 6 months whilst you save a bit more. Most piano dealers will allow a percentage of the hire fees to be put against the cost of the new or 2nd hand piano.
Indeed, but it also means that you'll end up paying list price with no discounts.

The saying goes you cant have your cake and eat it!!!!

I am in business. By definition I have to sell for more than I buy for or I am bankrupt. Despite my love of my job if I stop making a profit I stop doing this job as my bank wont take a warm and fuzzy feeling instead of cold hard cash to pay my mortgage each month. Making a profit on providing a good service is not something to be ashamed of. If the customer wants to reduce his/her risk by renting thats fine but there is a cost to that that somebody has to pay. Hell i dont know of many other trades that will rent out product like we do and offer all or most of the payments back if you decide to buy. If you put a new piano out for 6 months and the customer hands it back i doubt in todays climate you would get back what it cost you to buy selling it as a 2nd hand piano.

Im not trying to upset anybody but offering a good service does cost money. You may have guessed this is my favorite topic at the moment!!!

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 22 Jan 2008, 22:11

mdw wrote: Im not trying to upset anybody but offering a good service does cost money. You may have guessed this is my favorite topic at the moment!!!

Mine too.

All the time!

abc1337 · Post by **abc1337** » 23 Jan 2008, 09:50

I had this issue re budget when i started last year - I purchased a Roland A90ex plus a set of headphones for £600!

I'll never get rid of it, either - it has a nice feel for its type, and I also use the midi side of things with it with my PC.

Have a look on the Sound on Sound website - there are some decent keys to be had.

sirprize · Post by **sirprize** » 23 Jan 2008, 10:36

I have a little theory. There are now hundreds possibly thousands of mint-condition 1960s/70s/80s uprights lying idle in domestic environments. These would have been bought new and remained with the original owner in the same place all these years. Usually two scenarios: 1) someone close to retirement when they bought it and now want to find a good home for it before they radically downsize 2) someone who's kept their children's piano hoping they would eventually have space for it in their own home. I wish there was a way to locate these pianos easily because these were the last of the good-quality English-built pianos and are still excellent instruments. Pupils of mine have acquired many pianos which fall into these two categories for around the £700-£1000 mark but I agree £500 is pushing it unless you're willing to risk ebay

sirprize · Post by **sirprize** » 23 Jan 2008, 10:42

abc1337 you're a jammy *b........d* and a lucky *o*. A Roland A90ex plus ear-irons for £600!!!! Those things were built like tanks. A bit sluggish in the key-return for my taste but the build-quality! Congrats to you My own bargain last year was a 1997 Reid-Sohn SU131 in hardly-played mint-condition for £995. Win some, lose some

abc1337 · Post by **abc1337** » 23 Jan 2008, 11:20

sirprize

Its suited my purpose nicely, and was used in conjunction with my teachers Young Chang to get a distinction at grade 1:lol: !

I'm already beginning to recognise its limitations, but I love it for the fun aspect of layering sounds etc using Ableton software etc.

Fortunately my wife is an understanding soul, and after the building renovations in April a Zimmermann Z1 will be arriving! The A90ex didn't come with cans, but i had a pair of Sennheisers doing nothing (I now have a Yamaha mixer and fotex monitors - i refer to practice w/out headphones).

jjmama · Post by **jjmama** » 27 Jan 2008, 18:17

Believe me or not.....I bought an excellent Kemble 116 for £400 in last September via an advertisement in this web-site. It was 14 years old and in immaculate condition. Both my son's piano teacher and the piano tuner were very pleased and even jealous me! They thought it should cost me at least a thousand!

The piano still looks like new and very very clean inside....no rust / smell! The owner needed to move house and the piano had not been played for several years. Hence it was a quick sale.

Praise my God......just like you, we are on a tight budget. Before we bought piano, we did pray to God that He could help us to find a good piano within £400

"Taste and see that the LORD is good;
blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.
The lions may grow weak and hungry,
but those who seek the LORD lack no good thing" (Psalms 34:8,10)

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 27 Jan 2008, 19:53

jjmama wrote:Believe me or not.....I bought an excellent Kemble 116 for £400 in last September via an advertisement in this web-site.

With the greatest of respect you looked on a piano web site and found....................a piano! Im not sure the good lord had much to do with it.

jjmama · Post by **jjmama** » 27 Jan 2008, 22:04

Of course....before I bought the piano, I did little bit research on how to buy a second hand piano. Then I went to the private seller and tested the piano. I let my 9 years old son to try it and I did have a look in the inside. To be frank, this was the first time that I had ever bought a piano and I do not know much about pianos. The piano was not tuned for a few years and it's a bit risky! I did ask the opinion of others in this forum. Anyway, I knew it's a good piano and the owner is a honest lady so I bought it!

After the tuner examined my lovely Kemble, he told me it's excellent and he was pleased with it. What a bargain!

So I depend on God but also use the wisdom that He gave me to determine which piano I should buy!

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 27 Jan 2008, 23:31

Hey Ho. Have to say I recon a qualified tech is a safer bet. But each to his own.

Celestite · Post by **Celestite** » 04 Feb 2008, 00:02

I would favour one of two options. Either go for the digital option as a safe bet or take someone in the know with you to look at anything you buy privately (or indeed from some of the dealers if they only offer you a very short guarantee). I've often gone with pupils when they've been looking for an instrument and although I'm no technician, after playing for over 40 years (ouch) I know when something feels or sounds good and equally when there's a problem which needs further investigation. Also, having sworn I'd never be such a traitor as to buy digital, I relented a few years ago and bought a Roland f90 as a practice instrument for when the little ones are asleep and I want to play. I have to say I am mightily impressed! It will never replace my Bechstein but it certainly does a very good impression of a "proper" piano!

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 04 Feb 2008, 18:36

There are indeed unused/little used uprights from the 80s knocking about foir the 500 quid mark, especially on eBay and in small ads. But take a tuner to look it over, as there are also some dreadful heaps lurking in wait for the unwary!

Celestite · Post by **Celestite** » 04 Feb 2008, 20:36

Ditto Gill's comments

It's why I favour the digital option over the worn out wreck but still think the lucky find "real thing" is the best outcome if you can take someone in the know with you,

A440 · Post by **A440** » 05 Feb 2008, 13:40

You do have to be Very Lucky Indeed to pick something up worth having.
I have moved pianos for about 15 years (about 10-12 a week on average). I can count one one hand the amount of real bargains I've seen people buy (people who have paid less than I would for a piano). Over 99 per cent are not worth moving and I usually keep my mouth politely shut when people ask what I think of their purchace. I used to tell the truth but, believe me, it's too much hassle.
The wonderful thing about e-Bay is that rather than wheeling a rubbish piano down the street to a new home many people are paying a hundred pounds odd to get their rubbish piano brought from the other side of the country.
Piano shops exist for a reason, and they are usually very friendly! It's not like buying a second hand car! The shop will maintain the piano for the years to come and it's in their interest to supply a worthwhile instrument.

Well, that's my rant done for the year, see you all same time next year!

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 05 Feb 2008, 18:26

A440 wrote:You do have to be Very Lucky Indeed to pick something up worth having.
The wonderful thing about e-Bay is that rather than wheeling a rubbish piano down the street to a new home many people are paying a hundred pounds odd to get their rubbish piano brought from the other side of the country.
Piano shops exist for a reason, and they are usually very friendly! It's not like buying a second hand car! The shop will maintain the piano for the years to come and it's in their interest to supply a worthwhile instrument.

Spot on. Couldnt have put it better myself.

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 05 Feb 2008, 22:56

Keep plugging away. Last year I picked up a Gors and Kallmann 1924 boudoir grand for 100 quid. It was due to be put on a skip and the blokes doing the job asked my tuner if he knew anyone who would give them some cash-in-hand and take it off their hands. My tuner did 80 pounds worth of work to it, I polished it up and it has since been valued by two independent technicians at between three and four thousand quid.

It can happen!

Celestite · Post by **Celestite** » 07 Feb 2008, 22:38

I can echo Openwood's experience with one of my own. It was years ago now, but I was asked to find a piano for one of my more gifted pupils (I love it when they ask me that - I get to play loads of different pianos without parting with a penny!) I just happened to be nosing around an auction rooms when I came across a piano looking very lonely in the corner. As I say, it was years ago and the name of it escapes me now, but I played it and thought how lovely it felt and sounded. I'm a teacher, not a technician but have been playing since I could crawl almost so have a good feel for when something's not right and needs the attention of someone who knows about these things. I would be the first to run for help, but this one had just the right feel and sound about it. As luck would have it, nobody else was interested in it so when auction day came I got it for £50. My tuner went to tune it once it had been moved to it's new home and instantly valued it at £800 without any work being needed on it. So, yes, it does happen, just not very often!

A440 · Post by **A440** » 08 Feb 2008, 14:00

First rule of being a tuner. Value high and they'll pay you to tune it each year. "My,my Mrs Miggins what a perfect example of a spring and loop Alfred Eccles, this could be worth a fortune if properly maintained...."

Just be careful of hitch-hikers particually moths and woodworm- they can be tricky to spot. We always say as long as theres no mice, moth or worm you can't do any damage to your house (apart from when you try to move it in!)

Celestite · Post by **Celestite** » 08 Feb 2008, 14:28

Point taken A440! But this was a tuner I'd known for many years and trusted, especially since I'd put a lot of business his way during our association, so it would not have been in his best interest to stitch my pupil or me up! The motto? Know your tuner!

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 09 Feb 2008, 14:24

Pianos ( and other things)are only worth what other people are willing to pay. The only value I give to clients is an insurance value ie. what they will need to go to a reputable piano shop and buy one of the same quality. The secondhand market has fallen alot in the last 10 years due to quality new pianos with low prices, low cost credit and more people wanting a designer look to their house ( wanting a shinny black one!)
But bear in mind there is a lot a junk pianos out there as rebuilding costs are going up and central heating is claiming many pianos.
You may have a piano worth 1200 pounds, but if only one person is willing to pay 500 pounds for it, then its worth 500 pounds!

joseph · Post by **joseph** » 09 Apr 2008, 16:01

my recent bargain was

a kawai kg2 for 600 quid! yes thats right. a 1980s model.

I sold it.

for alot more than 600 quid.

LOL AND I'M NOT EVEN IN THE TRADE!