Cresswell, Ball & Co. Ltd.

[Bill Kibby]

Cresswell, Ball & Co. received a medal at the International Inventions Exhibition, which was mentioned on their pianos for many years, so all it tells us is that the piano was made after the exhibition. See
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/valua ... ianos.html

[sledge]

Dear jan1 and Bill,

Cresswell, Ball & Co. received a medal at the International Inventions Exhibition, which was mentioned on their pianos for many years, so all it tells us is that the piano was made after the exhibition. See

http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/valua ... ianos.html

I have exactly the same piano like jan1 does: Cresswell, Ball & Co. .. London, same exhibition stickers etc. Probably it's the same piece (SW England ? )
since I could not find any other references on Cresswell anywhere else on the internet, just here.

It is out of tune, needs lots of attention, I will use it as my first piano to at least try adjusting it, I am an enormous enthusiast about it and taking-care-of/playing pianos in general.

Did you try looking at it already; at least for more information, or trying to recover it?

Many thanks!

Cheers,
--
sledge

[Bill Kibby]

I'm pleased you are enthusiastic, so many people write of antique pianos as junk. I'm sorry, I don't understand "Did you try looking at it already; at least for more information, or trying to recover it?" - I don't know what you mean. The piano is not mine to recover, and no pictures have been provided. If you email me, with photos, I can quote for printing a history report, but this is not a valuation, Victorian pianos have very little value in Britain. The Piano History Centre has a number that were rescued because nobody wanted them.

Cresswell Ball were still crowing about their 1862 medal forty years later, which indicates that they did not receive any others!

[sledge]

Dear Bill, thank you for you answer;

I'm pleased you are enthusiastic, so many people write of antique pianos as junk.

It is my first piano, what I always wanted to have ever since; having played only on small digital keyboards before..

I'm sorry, I don't understand "Did you try looking at it already; at least for more information, or trying to recover it?" - I don't know what you mean.

This was addressed to jim1, but apparently he's deleted his account. Pardon for this misunderstanding.

The piano is not mine to recover, and no pictures have been provided. If you email me, with photos, I can quote for printing a history report, but this is not a valuation, Victorian pianos have very little value in Britain. The Piano History Centre has a number that were rescued because nobody wanted them.

A history of it would be just a good-to-know, but not essential. I could make a web-blog about it, so more people could take a look at.
More interesting would be to find peers who have Cresswell pianos.
And find out why they are so rare around: but this can become more clear when I will delve into the internals of my piano here; and given it being impossible to restore, might explain a lot of the above..

But I keep on fighting!

Cresswell Ball were still crowing about their 1862 medal forty years later, which indicates that they did not receive any others!

To be more precise, it's the sticker of the 1885 exhibition.

Keep in touch

--
sledge

[Bill Kibby]

Sorry, the ones I have seen only seem to have the 1862, they are probably older, I had forgotten that the medal on yours was 1885. The 1862 medal is often shown on Cresswell Ball pianos, but the partnership didn't exist then, so it was probably John Cresswell's medal.

Actor Tony Barton has one of these, shown on television some time ago, with a close-up of the name transfer "Cresswell Ball & Co., High Street, Wandsworth".

The Piano History Centre has pianos which may be the only surviving examples, but their rarity does not make them valuable.

[sledge]

Actually, the 2nd sticker of another exhibition reads "Exhibition Universelle de MD*CCLX*II* Paris, where * is scratched off.
Reasonable forensics lead to MDCCCLX*II* which gives options of 1862, 1868 and 1873.

The first sticker says the same as jim1's: "Invention music 1885 International Inventions Exhibition, London"
But the main vignette reads:

Cresswell, Ball & Co
41 & 43 West Hill, Wandsworth S.W.
London

and has Napoleon III Empereur portrayed on the left.


Reading this jolly http://www.stevespianoservice.com/Free- ... nstruction tutorial, can't wait to get that tuning hammer first

--
sledge

[Bill Kibby]

You answered before I had finished typing, so may have missed a bit.

1862 was the London Exhibition, the Paris ones included 1867 and 1873.

Apart from pianos, we have no record of them ever being Ltd., this suggests a date after 1928, when they were just "& Co.". Without photos I cannot guess if this is correct.

[NewAge]

Bill,

Slightly off-topic I'm afraid, but I don't suppose you have ever come across a Montel piano have you?

I ask because I was looking at this make some time ago in a museum in France, and these beautifully crafted examples dated 1836 and 1845 are apparently the only two on public display in the world.

When I find the time I will post a report I made whilst visiting the museum.

[Bill Kibby]

Yes, that would be Montal, not Montel, but you should post this seoarately as a new post under its own name if you have any hope of replies. He lived from about 1800 to 1865, and those are cetainly not the only examples in existence.

[sledge]

Reading this jolly http://www.stevespianoservice.com/Free- ... nstruction tutorial, can't wait to get that tuning hammer first

In other developments:
Fixed lots of the action yesterday, will put it in a blog and give you its name soon.

Dear Bill, which tuning hammer would fit this piano, in your opinion?

I am having hard times measuring the size of the pins, since I do not have the sliding callipers. Should I go for #2/0 and hope it fits the http://www.pianotuningtools.net/tips/ 's description of "pianos made in last 100-years worldwide" are #2/0 of measure.

Many thanks;

--
sledge

[Bill Kibby]

I carry about seven different tuning tools, and I never know which will fit until I try them. On some old pianos, the pins vary, and need several sizes. Assuming that they are tapered square ends, and not oblong, forget the star-shaped heads that come in various sizes, and go for a square. It gives less positions where it can be placed, but fits much better on most pins, and does less damage on old, rusty pins. I can't imagine how anyone thinks they can tell you what is right without seeing the piano, 1910 pianos vary enormously. That site is American, the piano is British and OLD! Over here, suppliers don't talk in size numbers, there are small, medium and large stars, but also square. One answer is to buy a lever that takes different heads, then if it's wrong, you don't have to buy another lever, just a head.

[sledge]

Dear Bill,

I have finally received this tuning lever, according to your recommendation of obtaining a squared tip:
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/100486931.html

It is however slightly too big: I get a 25-30 degrees of freedom, once fully mounted on the pins.

It does not slip over, but would it be a good idea to shrink the squared opening in any way, wouldn't it? (e.g. putting steel plates, or bent metal ribbon)

What would Your advice be?

Cheers!
--
sledge

[Bill Kibby]

If the square hole is properly tapered inside, it should fit most, but you are obviously not lucky in this case. I don't see how you can make the hole smaller unless you superglue something place. It needs to be firm and reliable, otherwise you will add hours to what is already a trying task for an amateur. I have had better luck in the past using a conventional 1/4" square socket, when I was torque-testing pins!

[littlemac1980]

Hi I have one of these pianos. It was/is my mothers, but we recently purchased a new one, my father was going to dump the old one, which has a lovely deep tone, but after many arguments I managed to convince him to let me keep it in the shed so I could try to repair it. To be honest it isn't in too bad a condition, but some of the keys are stiff, and one hammer is broken, a lot of the strings are out of tune also.

It would be great if someone could recommend a website or book that would assist me in attempting to repair it, I haven't done anything like that before, and though I'm very careful I'd be worried I might damage something if I try to go at it without some little guidance.

Incidentally there are a number of pieces of writing along a piece of wood on the inside of the piano. presumably these were made by persons who repaired it/tuned it in the past. I cant really make out the names written down but the dates are 1905, 1906, 1914, 1921, and 1935. So it seems it must have been built and bought in around 1905.

I love the colour and quality of the wood and the decorations on the wood, and it would have broken my heart to see it go to dump, somebody put a lot of work into making this in the past and i'd like to keep in good condition.

[sledge]

Hello littlemac1980,

Great to find a co-minded and co-pianoed person!

I was following the tutorial of http://www.stevespianoservice.com/Free- ... t-here.htm

And found it really entertaining to read!

Furthermore I've fired up a blog on my Creswell, Ball & Co. piano, Bridget: http://pianofix.wordpress.com/

Now it's not finished (not even started properly), but I have photos and videos of work in progress. Now the piano is tuned and 90% of key are working. Your ambitiousness is pushing me to eventually complete that blog faster than I've been putting it off.

Thanks and the best of time and luck for you!

-- 
sledge
PS: whereabouts in UK are you? I'm in South West

[Bill Kibby]

Can you imagine asking a builder where to find out how to build a house? Or asking a car mechanic how to learn to repair cars? Naturally, if you ask a skilled craftsman who has done years of training and had years of experience, the whole idea of an amateur just jumping in at the deep end is horrifying, and although some people manage to do basic repairs, sometimes without doing damage, most tuners will tell horror stories of the things people do to pianos.

Unfortunately, although piano tuners get paid ;less money than most craftsmen after a great deal more training, the cost of tuning an antique piano can easily exceed its value.

As for detailed instruction, there are college courses and apprenticeships available, but a book alone cannot teach you things like tuning and regulating. Avoid particularly any book that tells you that its tuning system is easy! Tuning a piano requires a great deal more than just looking at an electronic tuner.

[littlemac1980]

Hi Sledge, thanks for the reply, and thanks to you too Bill Kibby.

Well I'm not actually in the UK, I'm in Ireland, but I'm glad to have found this forum and use it and contribute to it also.

Well I looked at your blog Sledge, and understnad its at an early stage thus far, so I look forward to seeing how you progress. I will take some pictures of my progress too so we can compare work as an incentive to continue to progress.

To be honest, the piano I have isn't in too bad condition.

I've looked at a few posts on youtube, which give a good idea of how to proceed at least in so far as getting it cleaned and identifying what needs to be done. The best I've found is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_qJiOse ... re=related
There are four parts to that, which give a good idea of whats involved. I hope it helps you a little.

Thanks for your concern too Bill, and I'll certainly take your advice on board, particularly if I get to a tuning stage - I'll get a professional involved then, but for now, considering this piano was destined for the dump, I hope to use it to learn a little about repairing/replacing the basic mechanical parts, without getting too ambitious

In summary all that appears to be wrong with the piano action is that one of the hammers is broken, I have the piece that came off, it was at the bottom of the piano where it had fallen too. I believe I can superglue this back onto the original hammer stem. There are cracks in 3 of the hammers at the extreme bass keys, but they don't appear to affect the function so a little glue might be all that's required there also.

The main problem that the piano has is the keys themselves. The covering on the one of the white keys is gone, so i'll have to try find some new cover to glue on, but the most significant problem is that a couple of the keys appear to have warped slightly and are touching those adjacent causing the key to stick. I'm not sure how to fix this. Any advice would be appreciated. I will take photos to show if necessary.

Then I would also like to get new felt for the dampening bar, and also perhaps for under the keys. Most of the bridle straps are also rotten and some are even broken so I'd like to replace all these if possible, and also replace the springs, so I'll have to try source some reasonably priced sets of each of these parts.

To be honest having inspected the strings, they all seem in good condition, and haven't corroded, (the piano has been in our family sitting room since it stopped being fully funtional). In fact where there was contact with the hammers/dampner the strings are still brightly coloured.

[littlemac1980]

Oh... just figured out where that actual tutorial you were talking about is within that webpage. For some reason when I went to the link first it didn't have the table of contents and was only a template type page (must have been a problem with my browser)

That tutorial looks very good and detailed, and should be a massive help with the issues I might have, thanks again guys.

Incidentally I'm south west Ireland, C'mon Munster!!!

[littlemac1980]

Here's an ad for one of these pianos from a website in America :

http://www.americanlisted.com:80/texas_ ... 92030.html

Check out the price he says he was told it was worth.

I'd like to believe him, but unfortunately I haven't found anything to suggest its correct... and perhaps he's being very hopeful. but it does look in great condition from the pic he has posted.

[Bill Kibby]

$11,000 needs just a pinch of salt, unless Americans are very different to UK buyers of course!

Even 11,000 pence is an unlikely figure at local auctions over here.

[sledge]

Here's an ad for one of these pianos from a website in America :

...or if you would like to learn to play

Yes, I would like to learn to play, and have spare $11K at hand.

Sorry, this bit just appeared to be sarcastic in that ad :)

[Bill Kibby]

Yes, I agree, to ask someone to spend all that on an old piano and then assume that it is suitable for a learner is stretching a point.

[Davidkawika1]

Hi ,

Thank you for your reply. I will take your suggestion and look to a local piano tuner.


Dave