That was the boast of IBM before the competition got organised. Could the same be said of Yamaha? I am looking for a grand up to 6 footish. Everyone (?) says the Yamaha C3. Have tried the C2, C3 and the Kawai RX1, 2 and 3. I liked the Kawai sound immediately, the Yamaha I had to work at. But the general opinion is that the Kawai will depreciate faster etc and having lost money on an 'unkown' piano before, I am wary. I see very few s/h Kawais for sale. Can any tuner out there shed light on whether Kawai owners hang on to their pianos and any other comments on Kawai e.g. stability?
Stuart
Nobody got fired for buying IBM (Yamaha)
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Barrie Heaton
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Well first you got to ask how long do you intend keeping your new piano for if only a short time then the new Yamaha can be just as much a lost cause because of all the discounting
As for the lack of second hand Kawais that mainly because most of the of second hand Yamahas come form Japan dealers trading in on the well known name Kawai is getting better known and you will see discounting on the same level at there is on Yamahas and that will upset a lot of dealers who have moved from Yamaha to Kawai to get away form the 30% + discounting
At the end of the day it’s the piano you are plying not the name so if you like the Kawai sound then buy one
Barrie,
As for the lack of second hand Kawais that mainly because most of the of second hand Yamahas come form Japan dealers trading in on the well known name Kawai is getting better known and you will see discounting on the same level at there is on Yamahas and that will upset a lot of dealers who have moved from Yamaha to Kawai to get away form the 30% + discounting
At the end of the day it’s the piano you are plying not the name so if you like the Kawai sound then buy one
Barrie,
Barrie Heaton
Web Master UK Piano Page
Web Master UK Piano Page
The latest generation of Kawais are getting very good- I positively loved the last RX3 I tuned, and I'm a Yamaha fan!
I wouldn't attribute the improvements to the plastic action however, but to a general improvement in the sound! The RX3 is the choice of the bunch unless you can go to an RX7! Forget early Kawais such as the KG series which feel dead to play, sound false and have random tuning stability. I know of some earlier Kawais which are rock solid stable, but just as many are totally flaky and need regular pitch adjustments. If the Kawai has generally poor residuals at the moment, it's thanks to these clunkers, but read on...
The residual values of a new Kawai bought at a Yamaha type discount should be comparable to Yamaha. If you trade in your Kawai with a Kawai dealer when you want to upgrade to that new Bösendorfer, there should be little difference at all, but you could find it hard to sell privately because of the "Kawai who?" effect. As Barrie said, play 'em both and go for the one you like. Residual value is only relevant if you intend selling quickly anyway. Currently more people buy a Yamaha C3 than a Kawai RX3, so demand is naturally higher. In ten tears time, Kawai may have become better known in the UK, and the situation may have changed.
It's not the residual value of the Kawais that's the problem at the moment, it's the fact that they hang around for sale about ten times longer than a Yamaha. It's also the random way that the old pianos were labelled. Even a Kawai dealer can't tell you the difference between the confusing designations of KG, (the KG1 was made in two different lengths to add to the confusion) GS, CX, KK, KY (OK I made the last one up). The RX series labelling should put a stop to all that, and Kawai have now cribbed their numbering system from Yamaha, so there's now an easy comparison. Let's hope they keep it that way.
But no.... Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.
I wouldn't attribute the improvements to the plastic action however, but to a general improvement in the sound! The RX3 is the choice of the bunch unless you can go to an RX7! Forget early Kawais such as the KG series which feel dead to play, sound false and have random tuning stability. I know of some earlier Kawais which are rock solid stable, but just as many are totally flaky and need regular pitch adjustments. If the Kawai has generally poor residuals at the moment, it's thanks to these clunkers, but read on...
The residual values of a new Kawai bought at a Yamaha type discount should be comparable to Yamaha. If you trade in your Kawai with a Kawai dealer when you want to upgrade to that new Bösendorfer, there should be little difference at all, but you could find it hard to sell privately because of the "Kawai who?" effect. As Barrie said, play 'em both and go for the one you like. Residual value is only relevant if you intend selling quickly anyway. Currently more people buy a Yamaha C3 than a Kawai RX3, so demand is naturally higher. In ten tears time, Kawai may have become better known in the UK, and the situation may have changed.
It's not the residual value of the Kawais that's the problem at the moment, it's the fact that they hang around for sale about ten times longer than a Yamaha. It's also the random way that the old pianos were labelled. Even a Kawai dealer can't tell you the difference between the confusing designations of KG, (the KG1 was made in two different lengths to add to the confusion) GS, CX, KK, KY (OK I made the last one up). The RX series labelling should put a stop to all that, and Kawai have now cribbed their numbering system from Yamaha, so there's now an easy comparison. Let's hope they keep it that way.
But no.... Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.
Many thanks for the comments. I certainly don't intend to buy another piano again and am looking for a permanent fixture - however, it will still get sold eventually, when I can't play anymore. Because of space and money I am mainly comparing the C2 with the RX2, even though the '3' pianos are more open in sound. I found the RX2 and RX3 to be very similar - the RX3 wonderful in terms of being able to drop to a sudden pianissimo, whereas the C2 and C3 were very different - C3 being much better in terms of oomph and openness. The C2 felt a bit constricted, but the RX2 felt like just a slightly smaller version of the RX3, which is what it is. Pricewise there's not much in it when delivery, prepping etc are taken into account.
Writing this - useful to get thoughts down on 'paper' - it looks like the RX2 at the moment.
Many thanks.
Stuart
Writing this - useful to get thoughts down on 'paper' - it looks like the RX2 at the moment.
Many thanks.
Stuart
Yeah, Kawai certainly get my award for the most improved range in the last few years/months. I haven't tried the latest revision to their plastic bits with added carbon, so make sure you find out you like before you buy!
The latest C3 I tried sounded much more 'European' than the Kawai, so I think Yamaha's quality is still improving too (I can't imagine they rest on the laurels wrapped around their tuning fork logo!) altough it could have been down to the prep. I won't be trading my Yam in for a Kawai yet, but it's getting closer.
Guy
The latest C3 I tried sounded much more 'European' than the Kawai, so I think Yamaha's quality is still improving too (I can't imagine they rest on the laurels wrapped around their tuning fork logo!) altough it could have been down to the prep. I won't be trading my Yam in for a Kawai yet, but it's getting closer.
Guy
Re: Nobody got fired for buying IBM (Yamaha)
Well. not really. Yamaha are cheap and cheerful, good build quality etc and as sound is subjective you can't really say who is better or not.Stuart wrote:That was the boast of IBM before the competition got organised. Could the same be said of Yamaha?
They have a huge market selling to unwashed masses that can't afford "IBM" but it's difficult to see that there aren't alternatives, even alternatives that they make at each point which aren't as good / better once you remove the FUD. e.g in uprights I've read many a tech saying "aside from the sound the build quality etc is very good" which sounds like a recommendation to get a kemble to me
IBM were very expensive and selling to businesses with deep pockets. The boast was more about justifying that afaict against cheaper options.
Steinway / Bos et al are probably more like IBM. Yamaha have shown, like the clone PC industry did, that unwashed masses want a cheap product - and if yamaha are getting better, so too did the clone PCs / cheap software writers like MS that beat IBM at that particular game, which turned out to be big.