Grohman Stein

[rahish]

Hi, I am looking for any information on a Pianoforte Maker with a Surname of Grohman or Stein. I have some Census information of an Augusta Grohman who was a Pianoforte Makers wife b.1822 and was a Russian British Subject so they could have been German and travelled through Russia to UK or Russian and did the same. The son was called Richard Alfred Grohman Stein and was a Pianoforte maker from Islington Middlesex. Any info would be a great help. Thanks

[Bill Kibby]

My London lists for the period around 1822 do not show a Stein, so I guess he was not in business under his own name, but worked for someone else, so census records are your best bet. From what you say, Grohman seems unlikely to show up as a piano firm. Stein is a german word meaning stone, and in the same way that many british surnames begin or end with stone, so it is in Germany. For example, the 1928 publication Musique Adresses Universel lists 87 piano or music firms beginning with Stein, some of which are also listed in my files. Such names are also frequently used to give false german status to otherwise cheap and boring commercial London pianos, although some are genuine german pianos with non-genuine names. I’m amazed that no-one seems to have made a “Steinstein” piano.

[rahish]

Thanks for your reply,

A great deal of useful info. It is a genealogy question really but it would be great if I could link them to a make of Piano.
Unfortunatetly census info is all I have and can only get age, occupation household members etc and all the links point to Russia but I'm not sure whether to look for Grohman or Stein.
I think you are right that he probably worked for another company. Are there any online searches I can do for Piano Makers who worked as staff for other companies?
If not then I will just have to go to the Record office for where he lived, i.e Islington or Lambeth.

Thanks

[Bill Kibby]

I can't see any reason why the name Grohman would appear in the piano trade, his surname seems to be Stein, or is it hyphenated? Mine is probably the nearest to the kind of source you are seeking, but there is no way of tracing every individual employee by active research, although I probably have more chance than anyone else of something turning up at random.

[rahish]

I don't want to put you to any trouble,

But if you do come across any info regarding these individuals it would be great to know a little more.

Regarding the name, it isn't hyphenated on the Birth Certificate I have it says,

Richard Alfred Grohman b. 1846 Islington Middlesex (on his son's marriage certificate he is known as Richard Alfred Grohman Stein - Pianoforte Maker)

Mother Augusta Caroline Grohman, Russian British Subject. (1861 Census Augusta Stein b.1822 and Alfred Stein b.1846 - her occupation Pianoforte Maker's Wife and Russian British Subject.)

It's not much to go on I know but the name Grohman is used and then dropped throughout the 19th century by their descendants and I just would like to get to the bottom of it to see whether they descend from Stein or Grohman and who the original Piano Maker was.

Thanks again for your help.

[Bill Kibby]

I can see your problem more clearly now, and the only vague theory that comes to mind is that if he had come from Vienna, he might have worked for the famous Stein: Could it be...

Richard Alfred Grohman (Stein Pianoforte Maker)

i.e. a maker trained by Stein?

[rahish]

Could possibly be but I will try not to jump to any conclusions, and I hadn't really thought of the possibility that he just adopted the name.
I better do some more digging and see what I can find.

Thanks for your help with this. It has opened up a few more possibilities and if I find any more connections I will let you know.

Thanks

Rahish

[Bill Kibby]

I wasn't suggesting that he'd adopted the name Stein, I was asking whether it was used to qualify his occupation, rather than being a name at all.

[rahish]

Thanks

But it is possible that they adopted the name Stein or Grohman from an absent father that stayed in Russia while Augusta Grohman/Stein emigrated to the UK with her son.
The trouble is I haven't found a birth, marriage or death certificate ref for her yet. It's like she just vanished or changed her name again.