Entry level piano - new Chinese made or used British made?

[Gracelimsh]

I'm looking for some advice on buying a piano for my 5 year old son. He has just started lessons and we rented a digital piano for 4 months. We now wish to buy an acoustic piano but we are still unsure if he will continue with his lessons in the long term, so like most parents, we don't want to spend a fortune. Our budget is £2,000. I have had a look at a couple of shops and at some websites. We are currently deciding between a new Chinese made piano (Steinmayer which has had good reviews or a Steinbach which the piano teacher uses and recommends) or a used reconditioned British made one e.g. a Welmar. I would appreciate input on which people think would be better. Many thanks!

[thribblewit]

We were in the same boat - we bought a digital piano (Yamaha Clavinova) on the advice of the music teacher at our 6 year old's school. The reasoning was - it's not as big a commitment as an acoustic, in either price or maintenance (acoustic should be tuned every six months). It's more resistant to being generally banged about by a kid. Also, it means that you can plug headphones in if someone in the house is asleep - if it's nap time, or if someone works shifts, or if the kids are in bed, or if you have thin walls shared with neighbours. There are a few other bonuses too - built in metronome, which is handy for timing, and the ability to record and playback.
I was itching to get an acoustic, but a digital seemed like a more economical and practical choice as a first "piano". A silent acoustic piano was another possibility.
We settled on the Clavinova as a good first toe in the water.

[Colin Nicholson]

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with thribblewit's comments, and for a 5 year old (with respect), it is not that important just yet to buy an acoustic piano that will require regular maintenance and tuning. Perhaps it might be best to buy your own digital piano for now?

The pianos you suggest are fine, new or 2nd hand - and Welmar are a good make, however I would always get a piano tuner (or teacher) to check out any 2nd hand piano - regardless of whether it has been reconditioned, restored, refurbished etc. There are many different 'levels' and wording of restoration services, and you need to make sure the condition of the piano is good, and matches its description.

If your child shows promise in, say, 12 - 18 month's time, and/or they start to venture into a piano exam, then even Grades 1-2 standard are perfectly OK for digitals. I teach a few students on digital pianos.

However after these grades, and/or if your child advances well (maybe a competition?) - then you are recommended to switch to an acoustic. One of the reasons is to do with pedalling. The sustain pedal is not that good on digitals, and it doesn't have the same sustaining power, nor can you 'half' pedal. Also, having to regularly reset the volume to get a reasonable "starting tone" is an uphill battle - and switching from a teacher's acoustic piano to a digital is not good. Also, there is no provision for a digital piano in most ABRSM exams. .... but that's for the future.

It's far more fun at this stage allowing your child to try out the church organ, harpsichord.... and if lessons in your own home? .... (like I do).... a teacher can record their half of a duet onto your digital, or record a tune that your child may be having difficulty with - eg rhythm, expression, dynamics etc.

If you decide to buy an acoustic, then your child gives up (because its just a "straight talking" piano) ...... your piano will still lose value even if new.

Hope that's helpful....

Colin

[Gracelimsh]

Thanks, both. I'm really not keen on digital pianos, so we aren't considering one. I think the consensus is a used British or European piano over a new Chinese made one, so we will probably go with a used British made Yamaha C108N which our local piano dealer is offering at a good price.

[Barrie Heaton]

It's more resistant to being generally banged about by a kid.

if there was ever a argument to buy a digital the one above is not it. The amount of keyboards piled up in music departments that the keys are broke is amazing they can not take the bashing for the kids. Yet a the acoustic in the corner is 50 years + old and still going

To Gracelimsh

For me it would be the Welmar. However, get a tuner to look at it first. Chinese made pianos quality depends largely on the prep work done by the retailer, the makes you mention are fine for the price. But! they can take a lot of tunings in the first few years compared to a Kawai or Yamaha.


Barrie

[vernon]

I concur with Barrie's and Colin's advice. Take a tuner to inspect a second-hand piano. BUT never a teacher!
They are generally non technical ( we have plenty of exceptions here tho) but often are uncomfortable at being asked to judge a piano from technical ignorance.. Also, they generally feel constrained to make meaningful observations about the piano. Generally, they say," Of course it needs tuning" This often ten minutes after you've just checked it over prior to their visit.
Also, personal and totally subjective opinions about touch.tone,regulation etc are unhelpful.

[Gill the Piano]

I know nothing about cars. So if I were to buy a new one, would I take a driving instructor or a mechanic? Just a thought...

[vernon]

Gill
I love your analogies

[Gill the Piano]

You've never SEEN my analogies! I have to explain things simply sometimes, as you dealers must be driven mad by teachers who peep in the top and then condemn the piano because it's been USED or needs TUNING (despite the fact that the dealer bought it because it wasn't wanted by the last owners and if they didn't want it they won't have bothered to have it tuned for the last hundred years). Similarly we tuners are enraged by having to resuscitate a pile of poo which the piano teacher had said was a very nice piano and well worth a thousand quid.

[vernon]

Gill--no but I can dream.
btw, some of us dealers are also techs and tuners and like to think that the price we charge reflects; the condition of the piano both technically and cosmetically,that it will do a good job of what's required of it,that it won't cause the customer and us any problems in the future,and that the customer will be happy to recommend us to others for "good value."
It's surprising how many people contact us and thank us for selling them the piano! Nice.
Similarly with new pianos of all prices--the same criteria apply. By our gepgraphy,many of our clients live over a 100 miles away,often up a mountain or on an island so dealing with a squeak or elusive hum can be very troublesome. That's why we recommend the Steinmayers as entry pianos,after we've given them a thorough birthday and then the Kawais a bit dearer that seem to thrive on the Highland air.
Of course, other people have different preferences and experiences.
Also, those two Companies have super personal after sales back-up.

[Gill the Piano]

I don't understand why people trust a piano teacher (unless they're tuners too, like Colin) to say that a privately owned piano is worth a thousand quid - after all, unlike buying from a dealer, there's no legal comeback. It's v. awkward, especially if the teacher is a customer too!

[joseph]

The price of a second hand piano in a private sale is really dependent on what you're willing to pay for it.

After you've taken a technician along, consider a few things:

check out the price a similar piano is selling for at a dealer, then you can slash it by half to two-thirds. Bear in mind the dealer has to factor in the cost of transport, the work done on the piano by the dealer, and the dealer is trying to earn a living. Also it will be sold with a guarantee.

check out the price a similar piano might get at auction. You'll be surprised quite often, as pianos at auction are selling for very little at the moment, unless it's a steinway (and even then...).

Pianos on the private market are sitting for a long time before they are sold, because sellers are less willing to compromise on the price.

As for taking a teacher or pianist to see an instrument, well, I could tell you if the instrument felt nice and sounded nice, and I could possibly tell if there were some things you should be wary about, but if you're parting with a large sum of cash, you want a proper technical report, and I just couldn't do that.

In answer to your first question, I'd be tempted to find a British built Welmar, from a reputable dealer, or in a private sale with a technical report done. Chinese pianos are OK but they don't have the build quality really.