Knight K15 Piano

[dadistheroadie]

We're in the process of getting a secondhand piano, a nice wee thing which we're told is a Knight K15. It's less than a metre tall and in the 'spinet' style, but I can't find any more info on it than that at the moment. Once it's delivered I can check for a serial number I guess and see if that gives me any clues to age, but I just wondered if anyone had any views/values/piccies/anything on this model...

A search of the internet wasn't very fruitful and only turned up a comment that apparently Paul McCartney once owned one in 1987 which suggests they must be pretty reasonable in good condition, but doesn't add too much to my research...

Many thanks.

[Bill Kibby]

"Spinet" is a rather strange american term for a small upright piano, and here in the UK, we don't normally use it, because they are not spinets, (a type of harpsichord) and don't even look like spinets, but it's a free country! I mainly deal with antique piano information, but I have tuned some wonderful Knight pianos, an absolute dream to play. Bear in mind though that they are only wonderful if they are tuned regularly, they take a long while to recover from neglect in that department.

[dadistheroadie]

"Spinet" is a rather strange american term for a small upright piano, and here in the UK, we don't normally use it, because they are not spinets, (a type of harpsichord) and don't even look like spinets, but it's a free country! I mainly deal with antique piano information, but I have tuned some wonderful Knight pianos, an absolute dream to play. Bear in mind though that they are only wonderful if they are tuned regularly, they take a long while to recover from neglect in that department.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry if this forum is intended for antique pianos, I hadn't realised - let me know and I'll go away..

I had heard about the American connection, I gather they were designed for our colonial cousins, and it certainly doesn't sound like a spinet I'm glad to say (even I'd recognise that and I'm not the family musician...). It's in very good condition, little used, probably just a piece of furniture at some point in it's life, but we are advised that the tuning is fine and shouldn't cause us any problems because it was built to last, to say the least... We are advised that it will probably only need annual tuning - does that seem likely in the circumstances?

Thanks again - and if I'm on the wrong forum, please feel free to tell me...

[Bill Kibby]

No, don't go away, it's all history, I just meant that someone else may have better answers for you, someone more in touch with the recent retail trade. As a general rule, very few pianos will hold their pitch for a whole year, twice is usually a minimum, but your tuner will have to advise you when it has settled in. Scotland is a bit too far from Lowestoft for me to offer! For tone and touch, Knight are pretty difficult to beat in a smallish upright.

[dadistheroadie]

Thanks for the guidance on tuning - we'll see how it goes...

After some further rummaging I have found some more info on the paperwork that came in the post today, apparently it's a K 15 M series, which may or may not be linked to the fact it's a Mahogany case perhaps? I also have a serial number of 68023 which seems to date it to 1984-1985, a little earlier than I was led to believe but as we've been given a full warranty I'm not too fussed about that...

[mharriss]

Are you still there? I have a Knight K15 so I cound take some pictures and send them if it's not too late!

[dadistheroadie]

Congratulations... does it look like this?

Excuse the 'Twin Peaks' sheet music, that's a different story

[mharriss]

Yeah, same model, but mine is a teak finish. Are you pleased with it?

[dadistheroadie]

absolutely... it's only been in the house a month, and just about due for it's post-arrival tune-up, but it seems really good to my untrained ears. My son is well pleased, he's the real musician in the family and he's really getting stuck into it...

I'm just the roadie, although not for the piano, obviously

[dadistheroadie]

BTW, it would be kind of nice to see what a teak version looks like, if you have pictures available. We'd be building a 'resource' for future reference. Do you know how old your model is or anything else of interest?

Just a thought...

[mharriss]

I inherited the piano from my Dad who died in 1985. He bought it new in about 1980.

I am wondering now whether it might be walnut finish rather than teak.

Any of you experts have any idea how much it might be worth?

[dadistheroadie]

That's a nice look, teak or walnut, they chose their woods well... Ours is sapele apparently...

As for price, you'll probably get a real expert saying that they'd need to see it to make an assessment of the condition of the piano etc...

If it helps to know, we coughed up Ł2700 for ours including the matching piano stool, which seemed to be a reasonable amount in terms of the other options available to us - various new and secondhand from Ł850 up to a Bosendorfer at Ł8.5k (no chance for a beginner!), not to mention the grands...

[Bill Kibby]

Keeping a piano in direct sunlight, or within five feet of a heater, will almost certainly cause serious, permanent, irreparable damage. I can't guarantee how much of this applies to brand new pianos, they claim it won't.

[dadistheroadie]

Just a thought... your piano in the photo is awfully close to a radiator, something we were warned against on the basis that it can cause damage to the piano...

[mharriss]

Ooh, nobody has told me that before. That radiator is not very hot though, but I will move it away.

What sort of damage are you talking about?

[dadistheroadie]

Good question...

It was more of a 'sucking air in through teeth' sort of warning about not putting it too close to sources of heat. Maybe some of the real experts out there can give us more of an idea.

My thoughts would be on the wooden structure, no good furniture likes strong heat applied unevenly, you can get veneers splitting, joints cracking and all that sort of problem. I suppose there could be tuning problems as well - there usually are...

[Bill Kibby]

From 1976 to 1990, I carried out a detailed survey involving thousands of wrestpin torque readings on hundreds of pianos, from brand new ones to 200-year-old, in an effort to arrive at some answers to the disastrous effects which the new popularity of central heating and cavity wall insulation had upon the majority of the pianos I tuned. That research could be documented in many pages of boring statistics, but the principal finding is a simple matter of measurement: In order to be worthwhile, room humidifiers need to consume up to a gallon of water a day to have any significant impact in a large room or small flat, and although low humidity is a factor, it is a relatively minor one, resulting in an increase of up to six times the natural rate of shrinkage. You think that's bad?...

Direct heat is the main problem: KEEPING A PIANO WITHIN FIVE FEET OF A HEATER, OR IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT, WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY CAUSE SERIOUS, PERMANENT, IRREPARABLE DAMAGE. In this danger zone, natural shrinkage is multiplied by up to THIRTY TIMES its normal rate, probably because of evaporation of the natural resins. Strange as it may seem, even where there is a major obstruction such as a brick wall between a heater and the piano, the five-foot rule still holds good, with surprising accuracy, and the wrestpins within 60" are the ones which are most likely to suffer, not 59" or 61". Since this is about the deterioration of wood, it probably applies equally to soundboards, keys, etc., as well as guitars, clarinets, and antique furniture. Thermostatic valves on radiators certainly can help a great deal, if used carefully, because they can stop the radiators reaching a high enough temperature to cause the problem. Some makers claim that their new models are unaffected. The iron frame in a modern piano should remain quite cold, and dissipate heat, so it probably compensates for a lot of climatic change. However, my research makes it clear that if the iron frame does not feel cold, it is a reliable indication that the piano is receiving too much heat, and will suffer damage. Perhaps you should take your piano's temperature, and see if it is feeling under the weather!