Hello
I am in the market for a new piano having tried in vain to find a used one of the style and price I am looking for.
I have two young pre grade 1 starlets that need to move up from a keyboard to a piano. I thought I had narrowed it down to the budget end of the Yamaha range eg C110a or 109 both of which seem easily available for less than Ł1900 inc delivery. However I have been presented with a new option of a Kemble Cambridge 10 for Ł2300 inc delivery which I prefer the sound of (that's the piano and the price)
My question is which is the better option - and also if I am stretching my budget to just over Ł2k are there any other options out there I should consider.
My concerns are, price, quality, residual value (in case I need to re-sell) value for money and whether it will it see them through the grades without having to up grade
Thanks
Budget end advice sort
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano, Melodytune
The C110A is a good place to start and offers Yamaha design and good build quality for a very low price. Check out this thread for more options and see what another piano buyer has been looking at in this price range.
Don't be fooled by the claims that some dealers make for the "extra quality" of the C109. I really don't think it's as good as the C110A. Furthermore, the Yamaha nameplate is a cheap waterslide transfer which will wear off given a few years hard pounding by the starlets! The bass bridge design is an improvement over the 110, but the practical benefits stop there, since the Indonesian build quality isn't as good as that of the Chinese Pearl River factory from whence comes the C110A.
The Cambridge is a similar design but made in the UK with a European soundboard, and to be considered only if you really like the wood finish and patriotic leanings. Most Cambridges leave the works sounding very bright, and it can take a conscientious dealer much careful voicing to get them to sound good.
Don't be fooled by the claims that some dealers make for the "extra quality" of the C109. I really don't think it's as good as the C110A. Furthermore, the Yamaha nameplate is a cheap waterslide transfer which will wear off given a few years hard pounding by the starlets! The bass bridge design is an improvement over the 110, but the practical benefits stop there, since the Indonesian build quality isn't as good as that of the Chinese Pearl River factory from whence comes the C110A.
The Cambridge is a similar design but made in the UK with a European soundboard, and to be considered only if you really like the wood finish and patriotic leanings. Most Cambridges leave the works sounding very bright, and it can take a conscientious dealer much careful voicing to get them to sound good.
Thanks again Piano Guy. Your knowledge is very impressive on this and other threads.
Your comments are interesting. My concerns with the C110a was that it was Chinese made and that may have been a downside. Same with the 109 and Indonesia. Alledgedly these are seen as 'inferior' to the UK made Yamahas??
Having heard the 109 and the Cambridge side by side (and the C110A separately) my thoughts were that the Yamahas had a very bright, crisp sound but also sounded a bit 'thin' and 'plinky plonky' (forgive my descriptions but to untrained ear, I write as I heard - no offence meant!). I'm not sure whether this is a generic sound or whether it is a set up issue.
On the other hand, the Cambridge seemed to be a more mellow and rounded sound with more depth.
I also listened to an Eavestaff which sounded incredibly dull compared to the Yamahas that were as above and the Kemble which was somewhere in between.
Interesting to see your comments on the Cambridge wood finishes and patriotism. I'm looking for a black polyester finish, decent upright. Not too fussed where its made.
What about Kawai entry level uprights - are these worth a look?
Given the choice which would you go for?
Your comments are interesting. My concerns with the C110a was that it was Chinese made and that may have been a downside. Same with the 109 and Indonesia. Alledgedly these are seen as 'inferior' to the UK made Yamahas??
Having heard the 109 and the Cambridge side by side (and the C110A separately) my thoughts were that the Yamahas had a very bright, crisp sound but also sounded a bit 'thin' and 'plinky plonky' (forgive my descriptions but to untrained ear, I write as I heard - no offence meant!). I'm not sure whether this is a generic sound or whether it is a set up issue.
On the other hand, the Cambridge seemed to be a more mellow and rounded sound with more depth.
I also listened to an Eavestaff which sounded incredibly dull compared to the Yamahas that were as above and the Kemble which was somewhere in between.
Interesting to see your comments on the Cambridge wood finishes and patriotism. I'm looking for a black polyester finish, decent upright. Not too fussed where its made.
What about Kawai entry level uprights - are these worth a look?
Given the choice which would you go for?
OK: A Cambridge in a black poly finish is a rare beast since most people choose one because (unlike the C110/109 sisters which are poly black only in the case of the 110 and poly black or fake simulated nastywood-vinyl-woodite-veneer for the 109) it's available in genuine wood finishes. A black poly finish is also an extra cost option for the Cambridge, so nearer 3k will be the likely price. The casework of the British made instruments is noticeably better than the Chinese, especially in materials used.TMitchell wrote:
On the other hand, the Cambridge seemed to be a more mellow and rounded sound with more depth.
I also listened to an Eavestaff which sounded incredibly dull compared to the Yamahas that were as above and the Kemble which was somewhere in between.
Interesting to see your comments on the Cambridge wood finishes and patriotism. I'm looking for a black polyester finish, decent upright. Not too fussed where its made.
What about Kawai entry level uprights - are these worth a look?
Given the choice which would you go for?
The Eavestaff is built by Yantai Perzina in China, then regulated and voiced for Euro tastes in Holland. This results in a nicely set-up piano even fresh out of the box, but with a more mellow tone because it's what the Dutch think that Europeans like. Don't forget that they're selling to the German and French market as well as us, and those nations in particular want a mellow sound from their pianos. I have no problem with the build quality of the new Perzinas, and think that they give the C110A a run for its money. Identical pianos are branded Perzina, Sangler, Carl Ebel, Gehr.Steinberg amongst others.
The Kawai KX10 entry level piano has the option of either black or mahogany poly, which for me is the only advantage over the above pianos- and then only if you want the mahogany version! Sadly I have seen poor examples of this piano with warping keyframes and casework, which is a great shame since the rest of the Kawai range appears to have finally caught up with Yamaha quailty in the last 12 months or so. The sound quality and playability of a good example of KX10 is easily up there with the C110A, but they are too variable to recommend without seeing.
My choice? A nicely voiced Cambridge (which I still think is above your budget in black) or one of the Perzinas, but I'd seriously consider the C110A if the brand name on the front is important. The Yamaha name is the highest profile amongst this company.
Thanks again PG - I think I am making progress....
It looks like its between the C110A and the Cambridge (in Black) - You mention that a black Cambridge is a rare beast - is that good or bad?
I have been quoted 2300 for a new black one and this comes from a well known shop dealer (not an internet seller). This seems to be a reasonable price? The C110A seem to be readily available around the 1800+/- mark both on and off the web. I also notice that the C110A is looking as though it will soon be replaced, any idea when and with what - and will it be worth the wait I wonder?
I am thinking that the Cambridge would be worth the extra over the longer term. You seem to agree? I prefer the sound and the build quality of it. I am not sure how long I could keep my sanity listening to the 'starlets' blasting out their 'simple' tunes on the 'thin' sounding (imo) C110A. I too noticed the 'cheap' looking transfer stickers for the Yamaha name on the C110A - shocking!! - Just another area of cost reduction I guess - Is this the same for the inside components?
You mention that the Cambridge would be your preferred choice providing it has been 'voiced' well -could you please explain what this is and how it is done, and how can you tell?
It looks like its between the C110A and the Cambridge (in Black) - You mention that a black Cambridge is a rare beast - is that good or bad?
I have been quoted 2300 for a new black one and this comes from a well known shop dealer (not an internet seller). This seems to be a reasonable price? The C110A seem to be readily available around the 1800+/- mark both on and off the web. I also notice that the C110A is looking as though it will soon be replaced, any idea when and with what - and will it be worth the wait I wonder?
I am thinking that the Cambridge would be worth the extra over the longer term. You seem to agree? I prefer the sound and the build quality of it. I am not sure how long I could keep my sanity listening to the 'starlets' blasting out their 'simple' tunes on the 'thin' sounding (imo) C110A. I too noticed the 'cheap' looking transfer stickers for the Yamaha name on the C110A - shocking!! - Just another area of cost reduction I guess - Is this the same for the inside components?
You mention that the Cambridge would be your preferred choice providing it has been 'voiced' well -could you please explain what this is and how it is done, and how can you tell?
If you've heard the actual Cambridge that you're being offered and you like it, then buy it!
It sounds too cheap for a black poly finish version to me, but if the dealer is intent on making no profit then who am I to tell you not to!!?
But:
If you're being shown a different instrument and being sold a black one from it, then be prepared for the one you get to sound different. Most Cambridges are very bright sounding these days, and it may take a good technician a good half day to voice it to how you like it as a consequence. Will the dealer pay for an independent tuner of your choice to do the work inclusive of his price? If so, then go for it!
It sounds too cheap for a black poly finish version to me, but if the dealer is intent on making no profit then who am I to tell you not to!!?
But:
If you're being shown a different instrument and being sold a black one from it, then be prepared for the one you get to sound different. Most Cambridges are very bright sounding these days, and it may take a good technician a good half day to voice it to how you like it as a consequence. Will the dealer pay for an independent tuner of your choice to do the work inclusive of his price? If so, then go for it!