Sames Upright

[Bill Kibby]

'The Music Sellers' by Peter Game, Melbourne, Hawthorne Press, 1976, is a history of Allans' company, who bought out Palings, and are now one of the major music publishers and instrument retailers in Australia. There is a copy of the book in the Australian State Library but it is out of print now. Allans did not manufacture pianos, but the book may offer some useful information about those who did. Other than that, I have no access to australian archives. No serial number dates are published.

[jcooke]

Jennifer,
I know your posting is a little old but I can shed a little light on your Sames piano since I am a direct descendent of the maker William Sames.

Your piano was made in Birmingham England! I have no idea how it ended up in Australia. It can't have been built much after 1925 because the factory sadly burnt down just after this. I'm actually trying to find the exact date that this happened at the moment.

I hope you enjoy your Sames piano, I haven't been fortunate enough to see one myself as yet.

Regards!
Jo

[Bill Kibby]

Thats's not necessarily true, it may have been made under license.

[Bill Kibby]

Which website was that? No dates of numbers are published for Sames. A growing number of websites offer apparently simple dating of pianos by numbers. These dates are usually based on books, which in turn quote from other books which are often wrong or misleading. See
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/piano ... mbers.html

[csames]

Hi there, I too have a Sames piano, well there's at least three I know of in my immediate family. My surname is Sames and I believe William Sames was a relative of my grandfather - Benjamin Sames. The piano that's in Australia may relate to Ben's sister Emily, who lived there. I'm not sure what aunty Em's marital name was however. I can probably find out more if you like...

[Bill Kibby]

I am always interested to keep in touch with the descendants of piano makers, one never knows what useful snippets of information we can offer each other. Do please email me.

[jcooke]

Hi! I guess we could be distant relatives then. My great grandfather was William Sames. It would be great if you could fill in some of the blanks by letting me know Benjamin's relation to William. Also details of Emily in Australia. I've had no luck in finding out when exactly the piano factory burnt down, it seems strange that you have 3 Sames' in the family and yet none have survived through ours.
Regards
Jo

[Dolly]

Hello, I just googled my piano and found this forum! I bought a beautiful old piano from a junk shop 5 years ago here in Auckland for NZ$100. At the time I thought it would be a nice plink plonk for the children. It was pretty riddled with wood worm but the name William Sames Ltd, Upright Grand and some other distinguishable marks are indented on the lid that lifts up. It also has two candle holders on it.
I did an internet search on the serial number and found that it was made in Birmingham in 1912. The website was really interesting and named the employees that went to the first world war. I cannot remember which web site gave this info or which search engine I used. I adore my piano though especially as I also came from the Midlands and my dear old nanna was born around there in 1912.

[jcooke]

Hi dolly, lovely to hear from you. I do find all this fascinating, my gran (who is still alive) was born in 1912, it is her father who owned the Faculty. The factory was definitely making the painos at this time. It would be great to find that website I'll have to have a look later. I did find one website where you put the serial number in and it gives a date of making but it seems to me that every piano was made in the same year so I think it's a guesstimate and not a real date. I love the fact that you're enjoying the piano still after all these decades, it's nice to know that some things in life last a long time!

[TaterPie]

Dear Moderator and Members..

The more I read, the more confused I get. I've been told that Sames did not serialize their pianos and yet some of you are giving out serial numbers!! I can't find one inside the lid (top or keyboard). Did find a keyhole but am assuming this was common! Wish I had the original key...

Mine also has "sconces" (thank you, Bill) and is labelled "upright iron grand". The gold tole roses and trim are beautiful. So far, I guess I can put it at between 1855 and 1925. Has anyone come up with an exact date the factory burned?

I believe it is Rosewood. It is very dark but gleams reddish in the light. Does this seem likely?

I am trying to gather as much information as possible since I will be moving into a Senior highrise efficiency apartment sometime this year and will not be able to take it with me. I do not have family to leave it with and certainly do not want it to end up in a rubbish heap. Want to find someone with a love for old and beautiful things who can afford to refurbish it. Any new information would be greatly appreciated.

[Bill Kibby]

As I said before...

Which website was that? No dates of numbers are published for Sames. A growing number of websites offer apparently simple dating of pianos by numbers. These dates are usually based on books, which in turn quote from other books which are often wrong or misleading. Have a look at the Numbers page at www.PianoGen.org

Sames was not listed among these books, that doesn't mean there weren't serial numbers, or that they were "not serialized", simply that their dates are not published, so I am as confused as you! Lock-keys for pianos normally fall into one of few types, and your tuner should be able to obtain one that will do the job. How all this helps you is not clear to me, it won't tell anyone what condition your piano is in, or what it is worth. It wouldn't be old enough to interest me. A 1913 article from The Times describes a factory fire, which doesn't seem to have been their most devastating one. That was in 1921.

[TaterPie]

It was this very site that gave out some serial numbers - and some posts from people who were related to Sames. See Jennifer who posted Wed Jul 14 2004 with Serial #21131 and Honorpacey who posted Fri. Feb 17 2006 with Serial #14128

Oh, well! I think I have enough info to offer it on Ebay to someone with a love of old pianos and interest enough to restore it! It is a beauty. Thanks...

I will check out the "numbers" page you mentioned to see if the above serial numbers were just that.....

[Bill Kibby]

This is not my site, and I do not read the hundreds of pages here, so I wouldn't know, I just deal with history enquiries on the forum.

[TaterPie]

Bill (& forum members who are William Sames ancestors)

Can you shed any light on what woods were most prominently used by William Sames? In the darkness of my dining room - which has no windows and poor light, the wood looks dark, like mahoghany. However, when lighted, it is very reddish, like Rosewood might be.

Any educated guess on the type of woods used mostly in the Sames era?

Wish I could show you a photo! The scounces and the gold tole work are absolutely beautiful.


Lea

[Bill Kibby]

I have to say that in spite of all my years of involvement with pianos, I am absolutely hopeless at recognising all but the most obvious types of wood, and I wish I could find some sort of comparison chart for wood grains. Any ideas anyone?

[AnnaT]

hello,
i am buying a rather battered Sames 'upright iron grand' from a friend of mine, and i would like to replace the missing 'sconces'. Perhaps this is too difficult to do, but if at possible, i would be most grateful if some of the members who have Sames upright pianos with sconces would be willing to describe what their sconces look like - eg. are they gold-coloured brass or silver-coloured brass? are they plain or ornate? are they curvy or angular? do they fold away or are they rigid? This would really help me to treat the poor old piano to a set of sconces that are close to the ones it would have had originally. Or perhaps there are photographs of Sames sconces on the internet (i haven't managed to find any) or in a book?
many thanks and best wishes,
anna.

[martijn1634]

hey, I have a Sames piano here and I'll post some pictures of it , but this piano doesn't have sconces (=things to hold candles? {I'm Dutch, not good in english}).
Here are some pictures, if someone has a reaction to it, plz post. I don't know anything about it but that it is not good enough for me to play on it doesn't has a room filling sound.



is 1855 the build date? I doubt it ...

[Bill Kibby]

No, this is more like 1905, I can't comment on what it sounds like.

[davidoff]

I live in paris. I also bought à ancient sames piano. THe thing is, he is well tuned, but 1/4 step to low. so I was wondering if it was conceived so, or if I could safely raise it to pitch?
cheers
david

[Bill Kibby]

My advice always is to do it very gradually and carefully, about an eighth of a semitone at a time, so about 4 tunings or so, and lubricate the bridges thoroughly first.

Other tuners have other ideas, some tuners have no idea!

[leeh]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to this forum. I was looking for some advice on my Sames piano. I have finaly put in our new house, after standing in my garage for over 5 years!! The piano appears to be in good condition, the cabinet has always been in good shape. I am just trying to date it and find out what wood it is made from. The badge on the underside of the keyboard cover says"A A Frankland Sowery Bridge" and it looks to be made from Rosewood; lovely red/amber brown colour with a brass/mother of pearl in-lay in the centre panel and darkened areas on the smaller side panels what looked to have accomodated scounces originally. I will be posting pictures shortly, i am hoping to get the piano tuned shortly, because where i have situated it,(laminated dining room) it will be staying for good hopefully. I fear it may need a pitch lift before tuning comences. Many thanks.

[Bill Kibby]

It is not possible to date a piano just by its name, but have a look at my Datemarks page at http://www.pianogen.org

In old pianos, there are often many odd timbers, covered up by dark, dense polish, and I would not be able to answer the question of what wood it is, but I comfess I have never thought of rosewood as being red in colour.

I can't find any reference to that particular Frankland on computer, but I'll see what I can find on card and paper files.

[leeh]

Many thanks. I'll post some pictures shortly.

[Sari]

Hello all,

I am in Australia and have just become a proud owner of a SAMES Rosewood Upright Piano purchased from Brisbane and apparently owned for many many years by Mr G Cobham. The stool contained many original student books and sheet music from the 1950s as well as a Trinity College Of Music Studies for the Intermediate Division of the Local Examinations Pianoforte. The name Nancy Walsh is hand written in pencil at the top. My piano tuner has been twice and is now in love as am I. Took 12 hours in total to restore to glory but Wow does She sound amazing. A relative of Mr G Cobham said she thinks the piano is from the 1930s. The keys are ebony and ivory and the whole piano is in incredible condition. I’d love to find out its history. I hope some of you SAMES descendants will see this post. Our tuner completely loved her up repairing many inventive home made mechanical fixes. I keep having visions of my SAMES piano travelling to Australia on a ship accompanied by a family who loved her dearly. She’s not fancy and it doesn’t appear any decorative work was a part of her case. If anyone picks up on this post I’ll share more info and pics. Cheers S

[Bill Kibby]

I have a few estiated dates for William Sames pianos from England, but I have no idea if they will help. If you open the top of the piano, can you see any numbers?
Also, have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html

[Shamselkon]

Dear,

I'm a new piano learner, I have found the attached Sames upright piano, I think it needs some maintenance.

I would like to know the piano model and the production date.

Regards,

Abdalla Mohamed

Sames upright Piano