Choosing a baby grand

thubble · Post by **thubble** » 05 Oct 2005, 12:01

Two of my daughters are now at a standard where they need a better instrument (Grade 6 & 7 respsctively). Currently have a Kawai upright which we've been very happy with.

Now considering a baby grand less than 6 feet due to space. Budget is less than £15K.

Looking at the RX2 from Kawai, Boston (made by steinway) or Schimmel. Can anyone offer me some advice on what to look for (apart from geting the girls to play them first) or suggest other makes that I should consider? I'd like this piano to last a lifetime as I don't intend spending this sort of money every few years.

Any help much appreciated.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 05 Oct 2005, 12:23

Consider a Yamaha C2 or forgo that inch of room and get the much better C3. You should also try the RX3. Forget the Boston, the Kawai is better in spite of the fact that they make the Boston for Steinway. Don't be convinced by the worthless 'trade-in' deal allowing you to trade in a Boston for a Steinway at a later date, any Steinway dealer with a sniff of a sale will trade in a Yam or Kawai on the same terms. In spite of Steinway connections, residuals on Bostons are not what you'd expect *unless* you go for the Steinway trade-in, which is only applicable to the original owner.

In Germany, Schimmel is a 'cooking' piano, and has none of the cachet of simply being German that it has here, so beware. They're competent but nothing special.

Buy from a dealer local to you (within easy commuting distance) so they can back up any warranty work, and make sure that it's prepared properly before you buy. Obviously, buy the piano that you try, not a similar one of the same model.

Have fun trying out a few!

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 05 Oct 2005, 18:21

I disagree with Pianoguy I would have the Schimmel when well prepped, over the others. . However, I do agree that the RX3 has the edge over the Boston

At the end of the day its personal preference they are all good makes and a as PG pointed out a local dealer is desirable but not always as kind on the purse but if you do look at the Yamaha as PG suggested there are plenty of dealers now doing 30% + discounts but you do need one of the discounters who stock them on the shop floor so you can try them out, ideally one who has a few of each model so you can compare. Take note of the serial number of any piano you buy.

Barrie,

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 05 Oct 2005, 18:22

And can I second what PG said about the Boston? I had a customer who bought one, grew to dislike it and could only get 3K of the 11K she'd laid out on it in the first place, even though it was immaculate and regularly tuned.

Stuart · Post by **Stuart** » 05 Oct 2005, 19:02

Having just completed a foray into the same market, I would agree with the comments about the Boston. Yamaha and Kawai is a matter of personal preference. I went finally for the Kawai because it gave me the sound I want, but the Yamaha may give you, or more importantly, your daughters, the sound they want.

I went for an RX2 even though I could squeeze the budget for an RX3 and what I am about to say applies to the C2 and C3 also. The space/acoustics in my room will (I am awaiting delivery!) suit the smaller instrument better. Yes, the RX3 sounds better in a large showroom and is better, no doubt about it, but the RX3 and C3 pianos are not, in sound, 'baby grands'. They have a full sound and I think the RX2 is closer to the RX3 than the C2 is to the C3. In a small room the bigger piano is not necessarily the right choice. As for price, your £15k is ample in the RX3/C3 stakes: around £9k and £11k+ respectively, K or Y, it's a competitive market. Look out for free delivery, free tuning and on-site voicing after delivery. Most importantly I think is to trust your instinct re the dealer. Pianos are not boxes. A dealer who loves pianos will prep it well, even though he still has to compete on price.

Take your time and let your daughters really get some hands on time with as many pianos as possible - again a good dealer won't fuss about this. First impressions are not necessarily right: really good pianos are not overwhelming at first except in the delicacy of touch area: your daughters will know which piano 'speaks' to them in the softer passages and which piano has enough oomph in the heavy passages, but time/comparisons are needed to affirm the felt sense.

Be warned that as they progress, any piano will begin to be looked at critically over time: there is no such thing as a perfect piano and all pianists learn how to compensate for the particular charactistics of the make/size/individual instrument, but also yearn for the holy grail instrument which does not have these foibles.

Enjoy your daughters' fun in trying and choosing: there are few more pleasurable activities for a pianist than trying different pianos (really enjoying your own is one, I hasten to add).

Stuart

helmllwyn · Post by **helmllwyn** » 05 Oct 2005, 21:33

With a budget of around £15K I would also try the Irmler range of pianos manufactured in Poland for Bluthner. Have Fun!

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 05 Oct 2005, 22:27

helmllwyn wrote:With a budget of around £15K I would also try the Irmler range of pianos manufactured in Poland for Bluthner.

A splendid way to lose your cash.

An Irmler upright is good value for throwaway money, but the grands are simply too expensive to take a punt on.

A second-hand real Bluthner of post-bolshevik-build could well be available for that kind of money though. I was offered a couple of immaculate Renner equipped 1991 Model 6s recently which may yet materialise. Don't be tempted by a pre 1989 one though, especially if fitted with the shoddy Flemming action or the tall boxy dampers which have a habit of rotating in their registers.

Dreadful things.

thubble · Post by **thubble** » 06 Oct 2005, 11:23

What a great response.

Many thanks to all of you who took the trouble to respond to my post so quickly. I have booked some "play time" with two local dealers and we'll see how it goes.

I'll certainly be avoiding the Boston which one of the dealers was pushing quite heavily (not sure that I trust this guy now after the comments made).

Leaning towards Yam or Kawai at present but I'm really looking forward to listening to the girls play whilst they choose. They both play like "angels" and I'm not biased in any way

Thanks again to everyone