Bell Piano

[Nikkichick]

Hello, We have just purchased a second hand Bell piano and I am really interested to find out its age and some history. I am living in Australia and I do know that it orginated from the UK. Its serial number is 14364 - is there a register somewhere of Bell pianos that could assist with its age etc.? I would also like to know if the keys are likely to be ivory - the whole instrument is filthy, and I want to clean it. Any ideas - any help appreciated. Many thanks. Nikki

[Bill Kibby]

In order to judge its age, we need to know which Bell made it. If it's Canadian, the number suggests 1905. No others have published dates of numbers. I can't tell you if the keys are ivory without seeing it, but old ivory usually has a join level with the front of the sharps (black notes). There is nothing especially unusual about ivory keys.

[Guelph]

Around 1905 if it is made in Canada, that's it. You can find some information about this issue in guelpharts.ca FAQ or search "bell piano guelph" on google than you must find some pages from this site.
I'm living in Guelph and just got one Bell into my living room today. For the interesting serial number of 3811, I have searched on the internet from several hours ago. It may mean my "new" piano is older than 100 years. No, that's yours. Mine should be older than 110 years.......
Just like what I will need, you may need to hire a piano technician to give your piano a complete check. At least you will need a tuning to make it "able to sing". But prior to that work, please wait for 2 weeks to let your old beauty adapt to her new environment.
Ok....that's what I got from the internet today!

[hamiltonbell]

Anyone have a Bell piano from Guelph, Ontario, Canada? I just recently acquired a Bell, and Bill Kibby was nice enough to help me identify it as from around 1915. This was confirmed from the www.guelpharts.ca

I will post pictures of the piano in a few days. It sounds fantastic.

[Guelph]

Anyone have a Bell piano from Guelph, Ontario, Canada?

I just recently acquired a Bell and Billy Kibby was nice enough to help me identify it as from around 1915. This was confirmed from the www.guelpharts.ca

I will post pictures of the piano in a few days. It sounds fantastic.

Are you calling me?
I have one. With a very stylish 1880-1890's appearance.
I'm going to build my blog and will put some photos and sound tracks of the Bell. Probably you would be interested in visiting it!

[hamiltonbell]

yes, let me know of the web address when you have it. the photos are taken, just have to get around to posting them. it is a very plain exterior, going with the style at the time (1915) i believe.

[Guelph]

Sure, old pianos rarely lie on their styles!
For an example, the style of your Bell never exist in earlier years, and the style of my Bell has very rare chance to reappear in later years. Every era has its preference.
I sent pm with link for Bell photos. Please enjoy them!

[bellbird]

HI, we are all excited, we also have just purchased a Bell Piano Guelph
this afternoon. We live in New Zealand and my husband is Canadian...would love to know what age our piano is, series number is 32048...and very simple in style, so really thought it must be much younger than what you were talking about at the end of 06. We get it fixed up by a piano specialist, basics, but no new felts etc. Does anyone know about the qualitiy of sound of these kind of pianos? I am a flutist ,our son will start to play. Are there any kind of 'club of bell piano friends' around the world?

[natdtechguy]

I got given a Bell piano quite a long time ago. The only number on the inside which I can find is 131268. That is 6 numbers, and the serial numbers only go up to 5 digits. Apparently it might be a patent date. There are no other numbers or anything, except I opened up under the piano, and on the frame is -466 c. I am very inexperienced with pianos and only 13 years old. Help gratefully accepted.

[Bill Kibby]

This seems much too high for a Bell number, is it the Guelph firm, or some other Bell?

[goldeagle1]

I have something similar to natdtechguy - the only number I can find on the inside on the iron frame is 136979, which seems too high when comparing it to the serial number/age table.

I'm interested in finding out a bit more about the piano, in particular its age, if anyone is able to help.

On the lid it says "Bell London & Canada".

On the metal frame inside the piano, as well as the number, it says
"Bell Piano & Organ Co Ltd."

[johanfullard]

Has there been any further progress with regard to the date of manufacture of bell piano's with 6 digit serial numbers. I have Bell piano with serial no. 130582 - and BELL London & Guelph and Bell Piano & Organ Co Limited on iron frame.

[Bill Kibby]

I am not aware of any progress.

[Colin Nicholson]

We might have some progress regarding Bells with a 6 digit serial number.
I delivered a restored piano to someone yesterday, and in 'part exchange', I took away their old piano to be scrapped - it is a Bell, however when I brought it back, although the 'puppy damage' is quite extensive to both feet, columns & RH side panel (eaten through one inch of wood!) - when I played it, it wasnt too bad, so I am going to keep it and try to restore it. Needs loads doing, full mechanism refurb, and strings & pins are fine, and up to pitch. At this stage, I didnt take much notice of the serial number #136813 - punched into the 'gold painted' wrest plank, just above the bass wrest pins (not the cast iron frame) - this a full iron frame, with exposed wrest plank, overstrung & under-damped.

So.... upon dismantling the lever undercarriages, I had the mechanism propped on its side, and lever 18 revealed a date stamp "14 Jul 1924" - no other markings elsewhere. Side of the first key is stamped "Shenstone & Co Ltd" (possibly the action & key makers).

I also noticed behind the bass strings, in raised lettering on the frame that "Bell" is written in quotes? ...... could this mean that the name was still being used after 1924 - ?

Here is a photo of the piano mechanism, and some photos to the right showing in relation where the info was found - numbered accordingly.

Obviously, I think we have to forget the serial number, but it could now be used in conjunction with the date stamp.

I also noticed that the last serial number date in Pierce was 1924 (#33924) - a 5 digit number. Between 1894 and 1924, they had recorded approx. 967 pianos per year, over a 30 year period - so lets say, 1000 for clarity.
The recent enquiry therefore could be estimated that their piano is dated around 4-6 years before 1924...... this is of course a guess, but better than nothing!

Bill.... are date stamps reliable?

Although it 'looks' slightly earlier, the action brackets are wooden, its 85 key (celluloid), and the columns are square tapered.... (well.... they are now!) - as opposed to my other Bell with 88 keys, alloy action brackets (and full protected frame)
Would this info put it around 1924?

Here we are......

[Bill Kibby]

I suppose it is fair to say that the date stamp did not get there after the piano was made, it must have been done in the key makers' factory. Ordinary people do not carry date stamps around with them, and the date seems about right. A Bell piano that I tuned years ago #138,100, had a casting date low down on the the frame 20-4-26 J, this seems to tie in quite well with yours, and you may find one.

85 notes was still the norm over here in the sixties, and wooden standards were certainly used in some models then.

Although most references to Bell pianos are Canadian, I have tuned Bell pianos that were definitely British, with different numbers, and this is an example. Their logo was (not surprisingly) a bell, and their lock-keys had a bell shape, and they may be the ones made by Buckland at the Paxton Piano Works. Although the Guelph pianos mention "Canada & London" I am not convinced that there is any connection between the two. In Victorian times, there were at least 9 piano firms with the surname Bell.

Shenstones' name did appear on pianos, and I have some dates of numbers, but they were actually key makers in London. In modern times, they just sold televisions from a shop in Leyton, near where I was brought up, and were unable to help me with any information, but there is some listed in The National Register of Archives 1884-1951 (Historic Manuscripts Commission) includes the following information: Reports, minutes, attendance reports and other records for Herrburger Brooks Ltd., Pianoforte Action Manufacturers, London, including information on constituent companies, Brooks Ltd. & Shenstone & Co. Ltd. Derbyshire Record Office D4949. NRA 42144 Herrburger.

A "constituent company" of Herrburger Brooks Ltd. in modern times. Makers who used Shenstone keys include Bansall, Kemble & C.W.S.

The numbers on Shenstone keys seem to be erratic, and may have some kind of code.

[Colin Nicholson]

Thanks for that Bill.
You are spot-on! .... I've also found '25 4 24' in raised iron numbering (black) right at the bottom of the cast frame (to the left of the bass bridge) - I thought this would be too much of a coincidence to be a date. If you or anyone would like a photo, please say - but right now, busy stripping hammers down. The 1924 Bell (Canada) doesnt have hammer butt plates, but the London piano does.

My own piano is a Bell London (one I used as a shared project at college back in 1996) - and I used to have the bell-shaped key for the fallboard; it was on my main bunch of keys, but a couple of years ago, I had them stolen out of my car in the glovebox (I know, daft place to leave them) - and had to change my house locks aswell.

cheers

[Bill Kibby]

Our 1938 Music Trades Directory includes an ad for The Bell Piano, for which the sole manufacturers were G.A.Buckland & Co. Ltd., Paxton Piano Works, Paxton Road, Tottenham N17.

I hate to say this, but Michel was right about that!

[samlevy]

Hello, We have just purchased a second hand Bell piano and I am really interested to find out its age and some history. I am living in Australia and I do know that it orginated from the UK. Its serial number is 14364 - is there a register somewhere of Bell pianos that could assist with its age etc.? I would also like to know if the keys are likely to be ivory - the whole instrument is filthy, and I want to clean it. Any ideas - any help appreciated. Many thanks. Nikki

nice post...i love piano and it is always good to have instrument like piano.

[robert pattinson]

nice to know that there's still some people that care.

[Bill Kibby]

If you google Bell piano numbers you will find them.