Any comments appreciated!

[Jas]

I'm gradually progressing in my search for a upright piano, thanks to help here and this website.

Today I tried several used instruments at A1 Pianos in Sydenham, and I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts to share on the following...

Top of my list (and dearest, though within budget) was a Challen 988, probably 1980s. It seemed *very* short, but felt really good had a nice sound. I was wondering what people thought of these; it makes sense for me to buy a modern piano, but there is a spanner or two in the works...

These take the form of a 1930s (?) Welmar (with the 'Bluthner plaque' inside!) and a pre-WWI Ibach, with an overdamping action. These both less... 'present' than the Challen... more of a 'old piano' sound. The Welmar had a warm but slightly muddy bass, but the Ibach was brighter. Both played nicely, though maybe not quite as nicely as the Challen.

Having read PianoGuy's comments about Welmars and knowing that the Ibach is (or at least *was*) a good piano, I'm in a bit of a quandry. I understand that older pianos don't like central heating and they're more likely to go wrong or need refurbishing/restringing. They say they'll guarantee the Challen for 2 years.

So! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, especially comments on the Porche... Er, I mean... Challen 988.

Thanks,
Jas

[PianoGuy]

Top of my list (and dearest, though within budget) was a Challen 988, probably 1980s. It seemed *very* short, but felt really good had a nice sound. I was wondering what people thought of these; it makes sense for me to buy a modern piano, but there is a spanner or two in the works...

Watch the 988!

Most used the ill-fated Kastner-Wehlau "Floating Centre" action which can get noisy with wear and replacement parts are NLA..... In this design, the traditional brass centrepin and felt bushing arrangement of most pianos which is oh-so-quaint, but infinitely repairable is replaced by little plastic inserts for the centrepins. As these wear, they get clicky. The very last 988s used nice conventional Schwander type actions. Most are '60s or '70s. A real '80s one will have a Schwander. Avoid the Kastner action version unless dirt cheap.

The shortness in height is compensated for by the excess width of the cabinet. Challen used a very severe overstringing angle for the frame and the bass strings are actually quite long. Great almost Steinwayesque bass on the best examples!

Get the Welmar checked out by an independent tech. It could be your best bet here unless the Challen's a late one.

Forget the Ibach. It's a clunker.

[Jas]

Thanks for your quick and helpful response. I did notice that the keys on the Challen pivoted on little plastic inserts (lime green, no less); am I right in thinking this is example has a Kastner action then?

Assuming it is, it raises the following question: How cheap is 'dirt cheap'?

Thanks again,
Jas

[PianoGuy]

Thanks for your quick and helpful response. I did notice that the keys on the Challen pivoted on little plastic inserts (lime green, no less); am I right in thinking this is example has a Kastner action then?

Assuming it is, it raises the following question: How cheap is 'dirt cheap'?

Lime Green is about right.
It probably has a Kastner Action. They are deffo Kastner keys, but very occasionally they may have used an old keyboard with a newer Schwander action. The action will have a name on it somewhere; a red oval sticker on a Kastner, but look carefully... Any Lime Green or yellow placky and it's a Kastner!

Assuming it's a Kastner and has no noises or knocks, I reckon it's got a trade value of no more than GBP300. This translates to a fair retail figure (assuming a bit of fettling, collection and delivery and a 2 year warranty... not to mention the dreaded VAT on the margin) of GBP750 to GBP900 or so. Any more and you should talk them down. Add 50 quid if it's totally spotless or mahogany rather than teak.

If they baulk then they've paid too much for the bugger and it deserves to sit on the shop floor. Add 200 if it's got a Schwander atop those unfortunately plastically bushed keys!