Odd sounding f on the break where 3 meets 2 strings

[oceanobsession]

Just wondered if anyone could offer any advice , my piano is a schiedmayer from 1972
langer 75 action , basically the F last of the 3 strings then goes to 2 strings makes a bap
noise almost like you are hearing the noise from the hitting not the note , its in tune
and touching all 3 strings at the same time , i have improved it by shaping the hammer
in towards the front , the f sharp is also slightly the same but not as bad , the hammer stem on the noisy F is a bit longer to avoid the split dampers , wondered if this could be the problem , the rest sounds great . phil.

[Barrie Heaton]

Can you post a video so we can see and hear the problem


Barrie

[oceanobsession]

How do you post the vidio please cheers phil.

[Barrie Heaton]

See
viewtopic.php?t=9586

[oceanobsession]

ive replaced the hammer rest baize felt which was worn , replaced the 2 split wedge dampers on that F and F sharp which were not in the best condition
checked and adjusted regulation

[oceanobsession]

Hope this works

https://www.flickr.com/photos/188172342 ... ed-public/

Hard to tell from this but your hearing the hammer hit the string as well as hearing the note other notes you hear only the note
so its the hitting sound , its actually like a bap sound almost like the hammer is wide and flat which it is not
although ive had it tuned , does it need a pitch raise , only when i check notes with pano
tuner the low notes are all still low , this could be the pano tuner , if you play the note
soft it sounds better

[Barrie Heaton]

Play the notes chromatically open down and harder.
On a lot of 70s Pianos the change over from the steels to the base is very difficult to hide quite often the soundboard crown is going in that area.

Barrie

[oceanobsession]

Thanks for your advice , one thing ive not tried is the action level , apparently the far
treble hammers are supposed to be set 1/8 below the v bar for best sound and mountings should be level supported by all adjusters , ive also noticed from my own pictures that the front locking nut middle and stud dont look tight and level , so some checks to do there , hoping im going to find the problem , but i can live with it . phil.

[Barrie Heaton]

All hammers should be set so they kill seventh harmonic that can vary, just fractionally on the same model depending how the bridges have been carved.

Modern pianos do tend to be cut with CC Machines but Pianos from the 70s and 80s were hand-carved. So setting the hammer height was rule of thumb not a precise measurement they used to listen to what we were doing. I'm quite often bent the action standards and turn the seating nut, to raise or lower the hammers then add the keys.



Barrie

[oceanobsession]

update , after trying different things to cure this odd sounding f and f sharp odd sounding noise which did seem to vary at times , i replace all the hammers thinking that
they had gone hard , which they had , also i had filled needled and tried a fabric conditioner mix and alchohol on that perticular hammer and ended up making it worse
so hammers now replaced and mated to strings , odd sounding noise still present , the f
and f sharp have split vedge dampers which ive replaced , had another play with these
today but still no cure , so after reading things on the internet for a hour or so , i throughly went over the sound board looking for splits cracks ribs coming away , could
not find any problems with that . back to the internet for clues , the problem was the
bridge pins on them 2 key , got a small toffee hammer and just taped them , you could
tell a few went in a bit more probably seating the strings at the same time noise now completely gone , it could come back but at least i know where its coming from .
happy days phil.

[Barrie Heaton]

You may have to do this in the future: Take the tension off the strings, get a pair of pliers, pull out the bridge bins, put a few drops of CA glue in the hole, let it set, put in a few more drops, and then reinstall the pins remove any see a glue that will interfere on the speaking length.

Barrie

[oceanobsession]

Thanks barrie for your help and advice , the f and f sharp are better quieter than before
but im now thinking i should be loosening the strings and pulling the pins out you can get larger pins would that not be the way to go , does the ca glue make the wood swell so the pin fits tighter , i would imagine its the top of the hole that has gone slightly oval , apparently this gives false beats , im going to hold something against the pin or pins and play the notes to see if it makes a difference , i seem to have upset the unisons a bit now so im going to need a tune anyway , at least with the strings loose i can see how loose the pins are see picture of bridge . phil.

[Barrie Heaton]

The CA, glue is very good under compression; it soaks into the wood very well, we use it on loose tuning pins. They're also maybe hairline cracks.

If you look at the next note up bottom row pins left-hand side there is a bulge at the side of the pin that's your next one what's gonna go loose

Yes you can get larger pin but you run the risk of splitting the bridge CA glue or epoxy resin work well. If you go down the route of the epoxy you will have to re-drill the hole.

Barrie

[oceanobsession]

OK barrie thanks again , i suppose getting it on its back would help with the glueing ,ive
tried pushing a piece of oak against the pins towards tension you cant see any movment
last thing could it be the strings that are noisy . cheers phil.