Upright piano and underfloor heating - how can I protect the piano?

[aish466]

I have an upright Yamaha U3 piano and am moving to a new house. The new place has a separate music room that we got extended but the room has underfloor heating.

My piano has been great and hasn't needed tuning even once in the 3 years I have owned it. I am scared that the underfloor heating might damage the piano(and the other instruments - violin and guitar - I have)

I have searched online but couldn't find much information. How effective is an underfloor heating mat for the piano? Is there anything else that I need to use to protect it? A humidifier? If so, what are my options?

Also, I have the option of putting either tiles or a carpet on the floor. Which one would be better - or would it not make any difference?

Thank you!

[Barrie Heaton]

The carpets are helpful, but you can make your own from an ordinary carpet with insulated reflective material underneath that will work just as effective. However, I would strongly recommend having a lifesaver fitted; all the clients I have who have had a carpet I've ended up putting in a lifesaver that's for me is the first port of call.

As you pointed out that your room will be full of other instruments, you may find it better actually control the whole room with a humidifier. Underfloor heating is notoriously challenging to manage efficiently, where musical instruments are concerned.

Go here to find an installer, https://www.fletcher-newman.co.uk/index ... _installer


Barrie

[aish466]

Hi Barrie,

Thank you so much for your reply! It's very informative.

By carpet, do you mean the underfloor mat?

I'll get a lifesaver fitted on the piano. There is a technician in my area. Thank you for the link!

Do you have any recommendations for a humidifier? (There are a lot of options online!)

Also, I have an option to put either carpet or tiles on the floor on top of the underfloor heating(both would get warm due to the heating). Which one would be better to use?

Thank you!
Aish

[Barrie Heaton]

The idea of the carpet the specially designed ones or the home-made one is to reflect heat back down, efficiency all depends on the size of the room if it's a very big room then the carpet will work if it's a small room sadly the carpets don't work well and you need a lifesaver. Woodwind and violins can be kept off the floor.

Barrie

[chrisw]

In addition to the lifesaver that Barrie advises, I would favour making a home made insulating pad and would make it thick enough so that it filled the gap between the floor and the bottom of the piano. For example multilayers of corrugated cardboard (from good quality boxes). The thicker it is and the greater the insulation properties will be as the rate of heat transmission is inversely proportional to the thickness. Also if the gap between floor and piano bottom is fully filled it reduces heat transfer by convection. The lower surface of the cardboard can be covered with aluminium foil (most shinny side down) to deter heat transfer by radiation. I would keep the footprint equal to the base of the piano so that it doesn't protrude.

This of course doesn't cover the bottom of the key bed. If I felt this was getting too warm I would insulate by attaching a single layer of corrugated cardboard faced with aluminium foil on the lower surface.

Do you know if the under floor heating is by using hot water pipes or electricity ?

[aish466]

Hi Barrie and Chrisw,

Thank you so much for your replies.

I'll look into making an insulated pad for the piano and getting a lifesaver installed.

Do you have recommendations for humidifiers to put in the room?

@Chrisw, The underfloor heating is using hot water pipes. What type of foil should I use for the insulating pad?

Thank you!

[Barrie Heaton]

Reinforced Insulation Membrane -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aluminium-Vapo ... NrPXRydWU=

[chrisw]

To answer your question kitchen /cooking foil is adequate for glueing to the bottom layer (most shiney side down) but I hadn't thought of using builders insulation that Barrie has drawn attention to. Incidentally this type of builders insulation is probably available from Wickes if you don't shop with Amazon.

Thanks for advising that it is hot water underfloor heating as this makes me feel more comfortable suggesting putting a pile of insulation under the piano.

One of my hobbies is cabinet making and a few years ago I made a side table with drawers which had to be placed against a radiator. Since I didn't want excessive heat to dry out the rear of the cabinet and the drawer enclosures I attached an unobtrusive layer of insulating corrugated cardboard covered with cooking foil to the rear of the table and it seems to do the job.

Of course a side table is no way near as sensitive to temperature and humidity as a piano so that is why I recommend totally filling the space between the floor and the bottom of the piano with an insulating material.

Sorry that I have very little knowledge about room humidifiers.

[chrisw]

Perhaps this
https://puremate.co.uk/product/puremate ... a8QAvD_BwE

It seems to have a lowish electricity consumption.

[aish466]

Hi Chrisw,

Thank you so much for your detailed reply! And for explaining how you worked on protecting the side table - it is really helpful!

I'll look into the humidifier you found and the builders insulation along with cardboard.

Thank you!

[aish466]

Reinforced Insulation Membrane -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aluminium-Vapo ... NrPXRydWU=

Thank you Barrie! I will look into using this membrane along with cardboard.

[chrisw]

If you buy a roll of builders insulation there should be enough to build up a 'mutlipack' without using cardboard. Keep the shinny side facing downwards. All the best.

[aish466]

If you buy a roll of builders insulation there should be enough to build up a 'mutlipack' without using cardboard. Keep the shinny side facing downwards. All the best.

Thank you! I was going to combine both, so it is good to know. Should I just use layers of builders insulation or would one layer work fine?

[chrisw]

If you use just one layer there will be an air gap from the top of the insulation to the bottom of the piano. The top of the insulation will eventually come up to temperature albeit slightly lower than the temperature of the uninsulated floor. Convection currents will be set up in the air gap between the top of the insulation and bottom of the piano which will transfer some heat into the piano itself. I think it is better to put in multilayers whether this is the builder type insulation cut to size or corrugated cardboard to prevent even less heat getting to the top of the insulation and with very little gap for those convection currents to take place.

[aish466]

If you use just one layer there will be an air gap from the top of the insulation to the bottom of the piano. The top of the insulation will eventually come up to temperature albeit slightly lower than the temperature of the uninsulated floor. Convection currents will be set up in the air gap between the top of the insulation and bottom of the piano which will transfer some heat into the piano itself. I think it is better to put in multilayers whether this is the builder type insulation cut to size or corrugated cardboard to prevent even less heat getting to the top of the insulation and with very little gap for those convection currents to take place.

That makes sense. Thank you so much!