T.Betting - Recognizing the piano

[t.betting]

Hello,
I would like to know the overall members opinion about the vintage piano T.Betting, see the photos attached.

Our family owns this piano for long years as a family heritage and I am curious to know about it better. As far as we know it is manufactured in 1901 or 1905 and it is told that it is special model for public concerts (it really sounds loud – much louder as ordinary pianos does). The legend is that this model pianos are manufactured in 7 pieces only. Can this be true?

Also I am wondering if it has some commercial value? It has most of the original details, however some strings are replaced as old ones were broken. Also notice the pearl incrustation at the logo T.Betting and ivory keys – those are all original.

In case if for recognizing you need more photos of specific parts of piano, please let me know and I will post them.

Thank you very much for your opinions!
Lena

[Bill Kibby]

I know very little about Betting apart from the fact he was established in Leipzig 1887, and still going in 1928. It is impossible for us to judge the piano's quality or condition from here, you need someone on the spot. I don't think any dates of serial numbers are available, but ask your tuner if it is safe to remove the action and inspect the rear of it, in search of the action makers' name and number, which I may be able to date.

These big German pianos are usually very powerful, I would guess the date is nearer 1890, I am under the impression that by about 1900, he was giving his name as Theodor Betting.

He made various quite fancy pianos, this one is probably fancy enough to have been made or adapted for an exhibition, but I would beware of these myths about there only being so-many of a model made. It may be true of the decoration, but the piano inside was probably a production line model.

[vernon]

What a fantastic joanna

[Colin Nicholson]

Very attractive and stunning from the outside, ivories look perfect.

I would be interested in seeing the internal workings/ mechanism/ strings/ cast frame work, by removing completely the top front panel, fallboard (slides off upwards - the lid that covers the keys), and the bottom panel removed... photo taken from the front, and perhaps one close up.

[Gill the Piano]

Certainly is a mighty beast - I tuned a Chappell of the same/size vintage and it quite rivalled most grands for volume, especially with the panels off.

[Colin Nicholson]

As Bill says, impossible to value unless face to face with piano, and of course we have only seen half the story - the exterior casework.... which is exquisite to say the least. I restored a "beast" about 10 years ago, a Carl Mand upright (about 58" in height!) - carvings to die for with ribbons & bows / baroque musical instruments / foliage - all carved from one piece of mahogany. When I 'opened' the piano up and removed all the panels for an interior inspection.... UGH!! .... the usual, loose tuning pins, huge over-damped mechanism with tall stickers - attached with butt plates and screws. The action was quite unusual with 'S' shaped jacks/ no knuckles, and I managed to replace the leaf springs from a set of damper springs. The set-off worked on reverse-threaded screws with what would be best described as tiny "tic tacs" wrapped in leather and coated with liquid graphite.... tricky to adjust and get the hammers to trip correctly. The dampers themselves move back & forth on a sliding rail, with mammoth leaf springs.... possibly pinched from a Ford Cortina. Also weighed a ton!

Rough guess here.... I suspect the mechanism has had no or little work done to it.... possible over-damped and looking at the key blocks, probably over-strung.... so will have whopping long bass strings - probably longer than most baby grands. Tuning may involve sliding the whole action out with keyboard, and dampers could be a problem with a warped or bent wooden rail. (I spent ages replacing damper felts with clip & wedge to get them to work properly, banked up with thick check felt to allow more depth).

As a piece of furniture alone, would stand proud in any home - but would only be valued as an item of furniture.
As a "working piano" (which is what is intended surely?) .... well, I'll keep my comments to myself for now, unless invited to fully assess and inspect this piano properly - taking about 2 hours to do the work.
It also begs the question.... "is the piano tuneable" ?? and how long does it hold its pitch?

Interesting piano though, and would like to see more of the interior guts....

Colin

[Bill Kibby]

Don't you use a Papps wedge Colin?

[Gachava]

Actually i have this pianno and right now i need to sell it and as i see noone knows exact informations about this piano. Do u know price approximatly?

[Dieter]

Hof-Pianoforte-Factory T. Betting
founded in 1887 in Kalisch (Poland), Neue Str.609a
"The piano maker Theodor Betting (born 1827 in Emmerich, Rhineland,
died 1892 in Kalisz) was the son and student of a piano maker ”.
(Source: Piano makers / The Piano in Polish Collections)
Excerpts from "Zeitschrift für Instrumentenbau":
Volume 43, p. 515 from February 1, 1923:
“T. Betting's piano factory in Kalisch (Poland) was named after Lissa i. P.,
Comeniusstrasse 25 relocated ".
Volume 56, p. 133 from Jan. 15, 1936: (the page is only available in the original)
“In Leszno (Poznan) the founder of the T. Betting company, Mr. Julius Betting, died at the age of
70 years. He was the son of the foreman of the company C. Rönsch, Dresden, where he is also his
Received training in piano and grand piano construction. In order to acquire further specialist knowledge,
he worked for the companies Bechstein and Ibach, as well as for a few years abroad, among others. in
Romania".
Volume 62, p. 57 from January 1, 1942:
"Poses. The piano magazine T. Betting, Breslauer Str. 7, grand piano, pianos,
Factory Lissa, Warthegau ”.
Volume 62, p. 81 from March 1, 1942:
“Lissa, Warthegau. Tth. Betting u. Co., Comeniusstrasse 13, manufacture and sale of
Pianinos and grand pianos. The owners are Theodor Betting in Lissa and Hedwig May. Open
Trading company. Only Theodor Betting is authorized to represent ”.
Volume 63, p. 60 of February 15, 1943:
Advertisement in the "World Address Book of the Musical Instrument Industry" from 1909
A total of 18,000 instruments were manufactured until shortly before the Second World War.
The company name was sold to the Lignica piano factory in 1992. (Source as above)

Greetings from
www.dieter-gocht.de