Double Striking Hammers

[PianoMike]

I was hoping some techs, tuners or players could pass on their advise or share experiences.

I bought a brand new Yamaha B1 about 7 months ago. I bought it from a large piano dealer with a long established history. I saw no fault with the piano in the shop, because in shops they only seem to know how to play pianos loudly!

Second day after arrival I noticed that just a few of the notes in the lower middle range had an odd sound when playing quietly and especially with the sustain down. I then realised it was a double strike. I went onto the internet and saw that this was a common problem, but there were conflicting views about how acceptable a problem it were. Some were saying it was unforgivable that new pianos should have this fault, some say it is result of worn parts, some say it is common even in the highest end pianos.

Anyway, I assumed it could be quickly sorted, so contacted the dealer who gave me the number for their tech. When he arrived he played it down and said that the piano mechanism was correct and said that pianos can do this if played softly and suggested I was holding back too much for fear of upsetting neighbours he suggested I wouldn't hear the problem if I were more free in my playing. I wanted to challenge him at this point that the piano is designed to be played softly left it.

He came 5 weeks later to tune the piano as per the dealerships complimentary free tune. The double striking persists and now effects many notes in the middle to lower middle range. Its worse with the pedal down. Forget playing moonlight sonata, because the left hand sounds terrible due to this problem. I had it tuned again a few weeks ago and raised the problem again with him. problem is that when I wanted the notes to double strike for him, they didn't! He again sadf the mechanism was fine and suggested I was listening for it too much. At this point it looks like this Tech is rubbish, in actual fact he is the tuner for the concert grand in a nearby large city which host international pianists. So the questions are... is he avoiding doing this because the job is too big? Is he trying to somehow protect the dealer? Could rectifying this cause problems elsewhere (which he suggested it might)? Is it an expensive job? and lastly, the only other local tuner is blind, would he be able to get involved with tech? Thanks for reading

[Barrie Heaton]

Yamaha B1 are made in Indonesian and are not always set up that well. Also, some shops buy them un-prep to save money then don't do the work on the piano they are meant to before sending them out.

Double Striking Hammers can be caused by many things. The main one is lost motion this causes the hammer key ratio to be wrong giving you a Double Striking.

other reasons:
Jack Slap rail
Set off
Key dip
Damper slap rail

I would seek a second opinion from a tuner who is not connected to a shop if the piano is un-prep it can take about 1 to 4 hours to regulate it to what it should be depending on the problem However, it is a B1 so there are limits

Look at the level of the keys, if they are dipping in the middle as you look along the keyboard then the key dip will be shallow giving you the problem you have.

The Blind tuner will know what the problem is

Barrie

[vernon]

This is a routine job for a tech---not neccessarily for a tuner. Different trade

[Colin Nicholson]

I think what you may need to do is to book an appointment with a piano technician only, to assess the regulation of the piano mechanism.... not tune it, just assess - so pay him for a call out visit. If the piano has been reported as out of regulation, then you have a written document to approach your sellers. You might not understand the regulation process here, and we might talk to you as though you were tech orientated -- by the sounds of it, the instrument has not been set up correctly after dispatch, which can take a full day.

Colin

[PianoMike]

A whole day?!

I may have to approach the blind man for advice. Problem is, he only advertises himself as a tuner. The tuner connected to the dealer advertises as a Tech, and these are the only 2 I know of locally. I cant help but feel this technician is protecting the dealer in not being honest with me, as they would be liable.
If a day's work is required how much is it going to cost? (I'm in northern England). Also, why do the hammers do this frequently but not every time. Thanks for all the advice

[PianoMike]

Please could you explain what you mean by saying the b1 has its limits.
I'm aware it is low end but does that mean it will always have problems? Would yamaha put their name to such an instrument?
If however I should expect limitations, did the tech have a point in suggesting working the mechanism could create problems elsewhere or was that a load of tosh.
If my piano is such, that work on some double striking hammers is going to disrupt the otherwise pleasing tone of this piano, I may well leave it.

[Gill the Piano]

A reputable dealer will want to make sure the customer is happy. If you strike the note hard then 'bubbling' is less likely to occur, so make sure the tech hears YOU playing. If you bought a car and it was backfiring now and then you wouldn't just leave it, you'd make damn sure the car was running properly. Anything that ruins your enjoyment of your purchase should be sorted out. As a tuner I would recommend a good local technician; if the tuner you mention doesn't want to undertake the work him/herself then I'm sure they will be able to recommend someone whose work they trust. Regulation of the action won't affect the tone of the piano in any way other than getting rid of the irritating double strike!

[PianoMike]

Thanks for all advice.

I'll call the technician and get the ball rolling.

[Colin Nicholson]

The best way to describe hammer movement is to think of bouncing a tennis ball. Keeping your hand about waist height and not moving it an inch, if you throw the ball hard to the ground hard (forte playing), it will rebound quickly and caught dead in its tracks by your hand. If you just drop the ball gently (soft playing), if it doesn't reach your hand, it will rebound several times back to the floor. So ....
Hand = back check
Ball = hammer
Floor = string.

1. Measure the distance the key travels down in mm (all should be the same)
2. (Remove front panel) Measure the crown of the hammer head (part that strikes the string) to the string itself.

Let us know what these 2 measurements are.

[Barrie Heaton]

A whole day?!

I may have to approach the blind man for advice. Problem is, he only advertises himself as a tuner. The tuner connected to the dealer advertises as a Tech, and these are the only 2 I know of locally. I cant help but feel this technician is protecting the dealer in not being honest with me, as they would be liable.
If a day's work is required how much is it going to cost? (I'm in northern England). Also, why do the hammers do this frequently but not every time. Thanks for all the advice

Without seeing the problem its hard to say why its intermittent

As to your question, why is the limits on a B1 well you can't make a B1 play as well as a U3

I have PM ed some questions

Barrie

[vernon]

If you were my customer, I would exchange your piano straight awayfor another one and sort the the regulation out properly in my workshop,-not your front room.
Mind you, it wouldn't have left us in that condition anyway.
It's only going to get worse,not better. The faults won't heal up.

[PianoMike]

In fairness, I've not really raised the problem to a large extent with the dealer, only briefly and was told to call the tuner/tech but the owner suggested things can self rectify after settling. Perhaps if I asked, they would replace it or take it in but I'm still trying to diagnose If I have a problem.
It now seems I do, so I'm a little irritated. My only other experience on acoustic pianos is on my teacher's across the last 10 years, so I dont really know whats ok and what isnt.

[PianoMike]

Hammer from string is 45mm and the key goes down 10mm. That's on C3 which frequently has the double strike

[vernon]

you're in denial.
get the dealer to fix it.
That's what our mark-up is for.