Townsend & Son "From Erard's"

[SquarePants]

I purchased a square piano from a dead-peoples auction (i.e. not a specialised auction but a general one) approx 3 years ago. The history is vague, but I was wondering how old it is.

The plate on it reads:
Wm. Townsend and Sons
makers
from
Sebastian Erard
LONDON

Number on soundboard = 2155

Many moons ago, my initial inquiries in Scotland concluded William Townsend was a piano retailer at 6 Charlotte Square, Edinburgh (in theNew Town) until circa 1831-33. Alas, my lack of diligence on this matter has resulted this confirmation from St Andrews University to be lost.

I would dearly love to know whether it is an Erard.
Pics can be posted if needed.
Thanking you in anticipation

[SquarePants]

[Bill Kibby]

According to my files, Townsend & Son would be between 1848 and 1874. For any piano to be saleable in Scotland then, it was considered a great advantage to connect it with London. This is most definitely NOT an Erard piano, the important (and rather sneaky) word here is "FROM", which sinmply means that Townsend was trained at Erard's factory. The piano is not from Erards. See
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/reports.html

[SquarePants]

Can your research extend a lot earlier?

What About Wm Townsend in Charlotte Square?

[SquarePants]

If you are correct...in timing....then I'm looking at a {what} and coverted for many years?


What is it...if not your "Erard"

[SquarePants]

I never gave you the opportunity to produce a valuation.
I'm not interested in that...but it seems your organisation is...

My pics are copywright. you cannot have them unless you ask.

[SquarePants]

""Townsend & Son would be between 1848 and 1874"

That is not what is on the piano!

Wm. Townsend and Son

[Bill Kibby]

According to the Edinburgh Directories:
1847 W. Townsend. harp and pianoforte maker
1848 William Townsend & Son, pianoforte and organ builders
1874 William Townsend & Son, pianoforte and organ builders
1875 Townsend, Son & Thomson

[PianoGuy]

It was common practice for small piano makers to put the name of the maker where they trained on their name transfer if it would appear to add kudos to the product, a bit like a tuner these days may namedrop Bluthners or Steinway's. In the case of Broadwood, they would even allow the ex employee to purchase kits of parts to build instruments under their own name. I'd be surprised if your square has much Erard DNA in it, but it looks a fine little piano nonetheless.

[Bill Kibby]

Yes, it was a common, ordinary practice. When a piano maker had been trained at a famous factory, he would often mention this on his pianos and stationery by writing “From Broadwoods”, "From Collards”, “From Allisons”, “From Erards”, “From Bords” etc. This conveniently implied that the piano was made by, or connected with, the more famous name, but this was not the case. I would be happy to exchange emails with you on the subject, or quote for printing other examples of name transfers, directory entries, etc., but there is no puzzle, discrepancy, anomaly or doubt. I'm sorry if that sounds self-righteous, but as I said, you do not have an Erard piano, although Townsend's Erard training will no doubt show in some of the detail.

The dates for Townsend & Son seem about right for the look of the piano, but I could compile a full report for twenty pounds if I had more detailed photos. The scottish libraries have been most helpful in the past, but we have no references to Charlotte Square so far, and the first known record of Townsend's business is at Canongate in 1824. "Townsend & Co." was from about 1833, and "Townsend & Son" from 1848.