Piano Tuning

[KaiparaGirl]

Hi,
I have a tuner coming out later this week. I had my piano tuned a few weeks back that I had just purchased. However, the first tuner I got out to tune it, asked if I will be playing with any other intruments to which I said no, so he suggested he tuned my piano to 421 and not 440. Im kicking myself now because although I dont have people around to jam with, I do write my own sheet music to recorded music. So it wasnt until I started a piece where it was in d major then downloaded the artists mp3 to add in the sung harmonies that arent in the sheet music. I found that I had to transpose the sheet music to e flat. At first I thought oh well never mind. But what happens when I go to teach someone else. It wouldnt be fair to teach them in e flat when everyone plays it in D major and I dont want to have to go transposing every single piece. So I have another tuner coming this Thursday and I will be asking him to tune it to A440.
My question is regardless of whether I jam with others or not, why did the tuner only tune it to A421? Was it an issue over it would have just taken longer or what?
many thanks
Julie

[Colin Nicholson]

Julie,

Firstly, it is better if you try to keep all your posts on one page, so we can refer to previous comments and correspondence..... however, most of us have excellent memories!

I think you may know part of the answer to what you said below....

" My question is regardless of whether I jam with others or not, why did the tuner only tune it to A421? Was it an issue over it would have just taken longer or what?

It's like saying "why did the mechanic only do an MOT and not a full service?" .... I think you know the answer.
A standard piano tuning (at any pitch) is a separately paid job and separate procedure / different fees to a pre-tuning (rough), tuning, then a finer tuning.... different ball game and each require a specially arranged appointment which take longer than a standard tuning.


in your earlier post (History section), you said this....
He tuned it to pitch 421 not concert pitch because of its age and because it hadnt been tuned for quite a while.

Now then, for a fuller answer to your question, a pitch raise of about one semitone can be a real issue and risky for old pianos, and in some cases, the piano may never recover from such an ordeal - and will always sound out of tune within a few days. The original piano tuner was spot on with their decision, in the interest of your piano (and pocket!)

A "tuning" at the pitch it has settled at is recommended if the piano has not been tuned for donkey's years; this allow the tension/ soundboard/ wrest plank etc to settle..., also a standard fee would have been charged. The tuner may have already decided that a pitch raise was out of the question due to the age and condition of the strings & tuning pins. Not an ideal instrument if planning "Concert Pitch" jamming sessions, or composition.

To carry out a pitch raise on an old piano will involve at least TWO separate visits, possibly three visits.
The first stage (if the strings don't break, and the tuning pins are tight) is to haul up the tension to about 444, 445 (ish) so the strings are sharp.... this is a pre (rough) tuning and takes about 2 hours.

Visit 2: After about 7 - 10 days, the process of putting it back in tune begins. The strings will have already dropped below 440 (not as a bad as 421, but around 437 / 438).... then a part/ pre tuning will start again, this time with few lever movements than visit 1. Even after some stages, the piano will constantly be going out of tune, even during each visit, and the tuner will go over various parts again and again.

I would suggest you contact "Tuner 1" again (afterall, they have had the experience of tuning your piano) - and ask them if a pitch raise is possible, based on the condition of the strings and pin torque. If you decide to book "Tuner 2" .... then you may be wasting your money, as they could say the same thing. (Some tuners know each other aswell).

Generally speaking, even for new pianos - if the pitch drops or rises for anything over 4 Hz - will be a longer job putting it back in tune. (I have a customer chart which explains things in detail.... email me if required.)

If after visit 2 the tuning is successful, you will be told so, however, keeping in tune for a few months may never happen - EVER! ...... a 3rd visit may "improve" the tuning, but it all depends on the tuner's next visit (often they are not pre-warned about a piano badly out of tune, which takes longer to tune). The other thing is the quality and tone of the strings / condition of strings and tuning pins.... that may loosen slightly after a pitch raise, and so further work would require driving in the pins for more torque, or replacing the odd pin (which may break the string).... so overall, it is "safer" to just keep the piano at the old pitch. A piano tuner may also refuse to pitch raise it, just charge a call-out and walk away.... they have every right to do so.
Quite a big learning curve with old neglected pianos well down in pitch.

If the piano cannot be pitch raised - and you want to avoid transposing your scores / and require the piano to be at A440 (piano tuners like me refer to C523.3Hz) .... then you will either need to sell the piano, or buy another that has been tuned regularly and looked after, or buy a digital piano. Also see my website about pitch raising etc.

Hope that helps

Colin