Grand Piano Actions - Schwander vs Renner

Ben Wimpenny · Post by **Ben Wimpenny** » 13 Jun 2005, 15:33

Could anyone advise on the essential differences between a Schwander (roller not simplex) action and a Renner action on a grand piano - perhaps with a link to diagrams?

I am looking to potentially purchase a 1950's Welmar grand piano (any comments on quality of Welmar grands for this era?) with a Schwander action and am interested to see how this compares with a Renner action.

Many Thanks

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 13 Jun 2005, 16:12

The two work in the same way, it's an issue of quality. The Renner is usually, but not always of higher quality. The Schwander fitted to a Welmar shold be quite a good example of the marque.

Have you seen http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-forums/piano1826.html ?

P.Guy

Ben Wimpenny · Post by **Ben Wimpenny** » 14 Jun 2005, 08:25

Piano Guy - thanks very much for the info.

Just one other question if you don't mind - what are the actual specific differences between the two that generally makes the Renner of higher quality - presumably materials and workmanship - but what specifically?

Many Thanks

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 14 Jun 2005, 08:52

Investment in plant Herrburger Brooks stood still after the WWI then they were taken over investment got dire also, at the same time there was a turn down in piano production to the point in the 80’ they were making Kitchen parts. Where as Renner invested in plant they also diversified more in to the supply of piano tuners, for parts and tools.

Quality use to be good and quite a few of the big makes have used them in the past Schwander action was regarded as the best in the world around 1900. By some including Bechstein who used them until WWI

To-day Herrburger Brooks is gone a new company was set up called Langer cashing in on HB successful Langer80 action which was cheep and to a farley high standard

see
http://www.uk-piano.org/herrburgerbrooks/

Barrie,

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 15 Jun 2005, 07:35

The firms of J.Herrburger in Paris, and later Herrburger-Brooks, London, then Long-Eaton Nottingham were the companies which produced the Schwander action.

As part of the diversification mentioned by Barrie in the previous post, Renner made hammer heads, which is one part of the action that Herrburger's didn't manufacture. Renner hammers were consequently sometimes fitted to pianos with Schwander actions. Some even found their way into pianos from Japan and also into the appalling Lindner instruments from Shannon, Ireland. Anybody following the Yamaha / Kawai thread should be assured that Kawai's plastics technology was in no way inspired by these polypropylene and polystyrene filled abominations......

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 15 Jun 2005, 19:46

Actually Herrburger did make hammers well they did back in the 70s when I visited, production may have stopped after that. However, unlike Renner they did not make hammers to pattern for tuners they only made them for their own actions.

One thing Herrburger were good at was supplying actions for retro fitting in to old pianos The did all the calculations for you.

Barrie,

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 15 Jun 2005, 19:55

Barrie Heaton wrote:Actually Herrburger did make hammers well they did back in the 70s when I visited, production may have stopped after that. However, unlike Renner they did not make hammers to pattern for tuners they only made them for their own actions.

One thing Herrburger were good at was supplying actions for retro fitting in to old pianos The did all the calculations for you.

Thanks for the hammer info, Barrie. Were they branded with any name?

Herrburgers were always great at replicating duplicate keyboards as well...... Hope the new owners of Langer keep up the good work.

PG

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 16 Jun 2005, 17:53

Not that I am aware of just stamped with HB

Langer was sep up by the old workforce of HB David Martin is the CEO they are doing most of what HB did but they are not making hammers and you can buy springs, tapes and set of parts form them as well

Barrie,