1850 Erard

Hadi · Post by **Hadi** » 11 Jun 2005, 11:49

Hello,
I recently bought an 1850 Erard from the UK. While cleaning the piano I found on one iron frame bar some kind of mark/ seal/ impression with a crown and below the crown the initials "S C". Can someone help me out, whether this seal is a production mark or a former possesion mark? And if so who or what could the crown and "S C" stand for?
As far as I know the piano was often tuned by Dyson & Sons in Windsor (label inside). Is it possible to find out more about whom the piano belonged before on this way? Does any archive exist from Dyson & Sons ?
Thanks very much for reply and help.
Hadi

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 11 Jun 2005, 16:39

The first question in my mind is how you know the date, and is this a Paris or London piano?

Crowns have been used as trade marks by various firms, sometimes to try to imply superiority. If thisis an "impression" in the cast iron, it would have been part of the original manufacture, before the piano was completed or allocated to anyone. I have some information on the Dyson firm, who had real royal connections, but I can't recall the S.C. mark.

Hadi · Post by **Hadi** » 11 Jun 2005, 17:24

Hello Bill,

thanks for your reply.Well it is an impression at about 1/3 before the end of the second cast iron on the inner side - not to be seen right away. The Erard is a London made Erard. Opus Nr. is 2264. I found the date 1850 as an impression on the outer side of the lowest(first)repetiotion lever along with the name "A.Royer". On the key is an impression with the name "Chevalier". I try to add a picture if I can manage the upload. "S C" might be a production mark, but the crown does irritate me a bit. Perhaps some other Erard owners may look at their pianos and check if they have a similar mark or not?
Thanks
Hadi

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 11 Jun 2005, 18:00

How good to find a date on it. And useful for checking on my dates too, thanks. It is quite common for the source of the casting to include a mark, there was a Crown foundry, but not this early I suspect. It's not any spot to look at normally, especially if the top hinges are in a dangerous state, as some of this age are, so it's quite likely that people haven't noticed it. I'll ask around. S.C. is just one of thousands of marks that have no explanation now.

Hadi · Post by **Hadi** » 12 Jun 2005, 15:39

Hello again,
just a few additional details on the piano:
it is an underdamped, rosewood concert piano, length 243cm, width 140,5 cm with 7 octaves. The complete piano is in original condition and fully playable up to the last note.
Some people find it difficult to find the opus nr.# on their piano as I read in the Forum.
Well here a few hints, where I found it on mine: left side on the pin block, on top of the key frame on the right side, below the outer rim on the right side, on the back of the fallboard, on every keyblock, on top of the lyre and even on the bottom of the keyslip - everywhere is the #2264 as an impression mark. Every Key, every hammer etc. has its number by an impression (1-85). Only on the frame of the dampers it writes with a pencil "No. 3956" and the additional name "Fodare", what seems to be another kind of production number.
The brass is made by "Cope&Collinson" (Patent /mark on every castors).
The annual tuning label from "Dyson & Sons, Thames Street, Windsor" writes "Pitch: Med m" and it looks like the Date to be 1850 (only impression of the pencil), unfortunately it is nearly unreadable due to former cleaning.