Broadwood & Sons Grand

Clayd61 · Post by **Clayd61** » 09 Jun 2005, 08:17

I have just acquired a Broadwood and Sons “Short Drawing Room Grand” with the serial number of 5466.
Can you tell me the value...just kidding.

It measures:

7’ 6” long
4’ 3” wide

Based on my research...the serial number dates to around 1812. I was told when I purchased it ($500 us) that it dated to 1892.

It is in good condition...playable...and I can't get to sleep tonight over thinking and researching it. Any information or comments are appreciated.

Cheers!

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 09 Jun 2005, 18:21

Short Drawing Room are 7'10" 4'6" 7 octave A to A

Boudoir Gtands
6 1/4 C to A
7’ 6” long
4’ 4” wide

and number 5466 would date it c1865

Barrie,

Clayd61 · Post by **Clayd61** » 09 Jun 2005, 20:16

Thanks for the information... I had come to a similar conculsion...except this piano is 4' 3" wide.

The piano is:
A to A
7 Octaves
85 keys
An it has an metal plank (iron?)

Also...how do I measure the length? Outside edges? If so..it measures 7'10".

I am quite perplexed that I can not seem to match it perfectly with anything on the Broadwood site.

Can you share with me where you found your information?

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 09 Jun 2005, 20:58

All the info on the Broadwood site is taken from old catalogues and may not be complete However, A to A were all over 4’6 “

To measure the length you measure from the tale of the piano to the front of the keybed the width is outside cheek to cheek

7’10” A to A 46” the date remains for 5466. c 1865 octave span for Broadwood & Sons c. 1850 was 165 mm for their A-A Grands so you would have good fun trying to fit that lot in to 4’3” and acuminate the key blocks and cheeks

Must have been asleep mist a bit out

You could contact Broadwoods but they will charge you

Barrie,

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 09 Jun 2005, 21:18

Cracks are not a problem in the soundboard the condition of the belly bars is more important as to restoration work depends how it is done and by who and what you intend to do with the piano. 100 years down the road some one may comment why did they not leave it alone but 10 years down the road when you may wish to sell it in an auction the better the condition they more you may get for it

Look at my lat post I have added some more text

Barrie,

Clayd61 · Post by **Clayd61** » 09 Jun 2005, 21:35

Thanks...I will call it 1865 to be safe.

I may need to move this question to another forum...but...

What is you opinion on restoration? Is it a good idea? I noticed this piano has 3 cracks in the sound board. And the veneer is damaged in several locations along the sides My assumption is that this is critical and devalues the piano greatly.

I have a local restoration company that is after me to get it restored. They have not seen it yet but they re telling me that restoration is the way to go.

Does restoration devalue the piano from a historic perspective?

Clayd61 · Post by **Clayd61** » 09 Jun 2005, 22:00

By the way...regarding the width.

I checked it again...awake this time... and here is what I found.

With the top off...measuring at the music stand...from side to side (excluding the decorative trim on the bottom)...the piano measures 51 and 1 half inches to the outsides of the piano. Dividing that by 12 inches is 4.29 or 4 feet, 3 and 1 half inches.

Re-measuring the length...I get 7 foot, 8 and 1 half inches. Not 7' 10" as I had earlier thought.

Clayd61 · Post by **Clayd61** » 09 Jun 2005, 22:07

Ahhh the belly bars...sounds like a good place to go for dinner.

What are the belly bars and what should I look for so as not to be fooled by the restoration company?

Also this has what I think is called a metal plank. That is...the "frame" that the strings mount to is made of metal or iron. Does this indicate a cheaper...less quality piano?

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 09 Jun 2005, 22:13

Sound like you have the oblong Patent Metallic Screw Tuning Pin ( Threaded Wrest pins) 1862 to about 1897. Most restorers will not touch them also the dampers will have velum hinges and screw in damper wires the hammers will be on one long centre all good fun if you have not done one before. Some restores drill out the pins and replace with standard pins

The belly bars are under the soundboard but they will be the least of your problems

If done correct you are looking at a very large amount of money

Barrie,

Clayd61 · Post by **Clayd61** » 09 Jun 2005, 23:08

You sure know your stuff..

On paper sticker under Bass Strings reads:

Patent Pin Plate

CAUTION TO THE TUNER
The Pins must neither be struck from the hammer or racked from side to side.

SHOULD A STRING BREAK – Take the coil off without drawing the Pin, then turn the Pin up and cut the length of new wire off three inches behind the Pin, then isert the end in the Drilled Hole.

So I am back to what I was told initially...it is likely to be dated to 1892. Does the serial number match with this date?

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 09 Jun 2005, 23:44

In 1834, a second range of numbers was introduced for both the 7' Boudoir Grands and the smaller Cottage Grands. According to this series yours would be 1864! The information I got from Broadwoods about 20 years ago doesn't relate to 1892 or 7'10". In 1890, Boudoir grands were at #3,167, which could seem to leads towards yours, but all Grands were gradually combined into one sequence, around the period 1890-1894.

1890 #42,000 (for some).

Confused? I am! See http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/reports.html

hermitide · Post by **hermitide** » 18 Jul 2005, 14:54

boy do I feel silly, I am in the midst of buying a short drawing room grand too, but for 6000 euros instead of 500 dollars, the only consolation is that I understand the piano is in perfect condition and all parts are original, nothing has been replaced. The serial number is 829, could this be correct? There was an original sticker attached inside the instrument which reads "Short Drawig Room Grand No.829" There are a few cracks in the soundboard, very small, and nothing buzzes.

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 18 Jul 2005, 15:19

Unfortunately, the lists I got from Broadwood show either Boudoir 8'4" Grands or Cottage grands. The latter being shorter than 8'4", they could be the same as "Short Boudoir", I don't know. If so, #429 could be 1869. See
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/reports.html

andyana · Post by **andyana** » 19 Jul 2005, 14:01

I had one of those grands, with patent screw pins that were rusted into the plate. Heaviest piano I ever owned, yet a less than impressive tone. Had the patent gunmetal harmonic bar. In summary a beautifully made piano way behind its times in terms of technology. I sold it for $1000 AU (300GBP)

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 19 Jul 2005, 19:31

Broadwoods made some durable, reliable instruments, beautifully made, but as you say, a bit behind the times. Some are still working and tuneable from the 1860s and beyond, with no restoration.

hermitide · Post by **hermitide** » 21 Jul 2005, 15:57

I just got my instrument from Brussels, I absolutely love it, it´s in perfect condition, sounds absolutely wonderful, even the tuning isn´t very bad after the long haul. It is BEAUTIFUL and sounds amazing, I have been playing it all day since it arrived!! I tried to imagine, this piano has had very little work done, and all parts are original, so this is what it sounded all these yeas ago, amazing...!

Quite a happy buyer,

Hermitide

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