Erard Piano - Serial Number 83454

[Heijn1234]

Hi there,

I know absolutely nothing about pianos and i am in charge of selling an Erard Piano.

The serial number is 83454, is anyone able to give me information about the history of this piano? i'd also like to know what sort of piano it is and if someone was able to give me a rough estimation on what it is worth that would be great.

Scott

[Bill Kibby]

Firstly, it is always unwise to judge a piano based on nothing more than a number, because most pianos have several numbers inside, as explained on my Numbers page at
http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html

The number suggests that it was made around 1901. We don't anything about the piano apart from what you have told us. Is it possible you could post some photos here to show what the whole thing looks like, or email them to me to post?

Nobody anywhere can guess the value or condition of a piano without inspecting it on the spot, and tuning it, so your local tuner is the best person to ask about that. Here in Britain, unrestored pianos of that age often have very little value, and I am offered several each year for nothing, just to save them from destruction.

[Bill Kibby]

1901ParisErard#83154g (0).jpeg (28.54 KiB) Viewed 20068 times

I read the number as 83154 but it doesn't make much difference.

1901ParisErard#83154g (5).jpeg (23.5 KiB) Viewed 20068 times

If you move backwards along the hinged edge of the piano from the number, you may find an oblong marked with the year. I would be very interested to know what it is. In the nearby posting about Brunger, Colin shows how an Erard may be dated on the action.

1901ParisErard#83154g (3).jpeg (37.04 KiB) Viewed 20068 times

Erards' interior design of iron frame etc. was very advanced by the 1830s, but hardly changed by 1900, so it is difficult to find any strong clues to confirm the 1901 date.

[Colin Nicholson]

If the A1 whippen is date stamped, I'm not sure if the left side is visible when in the action, otherwise I would have spotted it. It might be obscured by the bracket. These actions don't lift off the keys as all 5 wooden brackets (standards) are glued and jointed into the key frame. If you try to remove the whippen, then lift ALL the hammers up first - then you need to remove the hammer rest rail (5 screws embedded into the felt).... because the back of the whippens are trapped under this rail.

If you successfully remove the whippen, the key lifts out easily as it has no back check.

Take great care sliding out the action - use the two centre brackets to pull it out, large holes cut out for your fingers.... and don't touch any of the keys, or you'll be faced with an expensive bill for shank replacements! The action may need to be tilted aswell, depending on hammer height. The serial number will also be stamped properly in the middle of the hammer flange rail, and there are other references to the serial number inside the piano.

[Phiphi]

I'm sorry to be late for this post. The photographs posted by Bill are those of a piano with an interesting history: From the Erard archives, 83154 corresponds to a straight-strung No1, with the 5 bar frame, and the case is of rosewood (palissandre).

It must have had a bit of a chaotic childhood: it enters the workshop in January 1902 and was sold only in February 1907, to Lord Berwick, in Paris. This explains why it is now in the UK. From the commercial records, the piano was initially rented out by Erard (probably from 1902, but it's not said whom it was rented to). The piano was sold on 19 February 1907 for 2500 francs, but Erard offered to have it reconditioned in May 1907. A deposit of 1250 francs was paid on 23rd February, with the remaining to be paid on 31st October 1907. In fact, this sum was paid on 24th January 1908. For those interested, Lord Berwick's residence in Paris, where the piano was delivered, was 17 rue Dumont d'Urville. You may guess that it's not a working class area.

From the NT website: Thomas, 8th Lord Berwick served as a diplomat in Paris between 1903 and 1911, where he became interested in French decorative art. It is possible that this piano was later moved to Attingham Park. It seems that he had to sell a large part of his collection to get funds for the restoration of this estate. The piano may have been sold then.

In summary, it's a very classic Erard with a bit of history.

For info, 83454 is a smaller No00 straight strung with a 3 bar frame and a walnut case. Sold to a Madame Flament, in Paris. I don't know how it could be in the UK now.

[Jodyb.]

Hello guys,

I got a piano from a friend and i would like to know something more about it.
Does it have any value and is it worth to repair it?
It says Erard Paris and on the Side pierre bruxelles.
I have Some pictures from it and i will try to download them here.

[Bill Kibby]

See the separate postings for EVrard!

[vernon]

Why would one forge an Erard? Seems a lot of trouble to go to.I would have thought Erards would have them assassinated in those wilder days.

[Bill Kibby]

A century ago, Erard was a top French maker, this ad shows that they were finding fakes as early as 1887.

Sebastien Erard Ruffe was also giving the impression that his pianos were connected with Erard.

[vernon]

That seems pretty definitive.
Wasn't there some scandal with Broadwood White?

[Bill Kibby]

I touch upon both subjects on my Names page at
http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html

[Gill the Piano]

An old tuner who had worked at Broadwood's said that pianomaker Mr White had approached Mr Broadwood - a fishmonger - and offered him a small consideration to use his name. So it was all legal, but dodgy!