Pianos by Squire and by Karnock

[oskar]

Hi,

I have recently got 2 pianos and would be great if you can help me to establish how old those are. I have searched a lot of forums and pages but don't seem to be able to find it out.
One is B. Squire and Son with serial number C&S 177161 and the second is Karnock London with only number 3940.
I have attached photos of both.
Thank you in advance!

[Bill Kibby]

I am guessing that the first and third pictures refer to Squire, and the other two to Karnock.

The published dates of numbers for Squire are not reliable, but the number you quote beginning with C&S is a stock number for the retailers Crane & Sons, which are listed on my Numbers page at
http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html

The list only tells us that your piano was sold some time after 1933, but it was probably made by Kemble. If so, there should be a serial number preceded by the letter K, imprinted in the soundboard, inside the piano on the left, at keyboard level.

Karnock is probably a made-up name used by a retailer, as described at
http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html

There is one on Google Images marked "Sole agents Farmer, Luton" so he probably made up the name. I have no record of a real London maker named Karnock, the piano would be before 1927, possibly around 1907. Have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/edwardian.html


If you want to search inside the piano for clues, have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html

[Colin Nicholson]

We often find that first-time lookers for a serial number usually results in just opening the top lid, then finding some punched numbers (with letters) embossed into the side panel top - numbers facing the ceiling? These are usually stock numbers, but have been found on occasions to be the serial number. Two different numbers.

The best way to look for the serial number is to remove the front panel and fallboard completely to get a bird's eye view of any sets of numbers facing you, not facing the ceiling.

[oskar]

Thanks for your attention. I've just done what you adviced me to do. I found the K number when I removed the top front panel in Squire piano, it's K60295. There is any other number in Karnock piano, just 3940, the same number on a top panel and the same I saw when I removed the bottom panel of the piano.

[Bill Kibby]

As I said, Karnock is not likely to be a real maker, so numbers don't help. The Squire is made by Kemble, and although the published dates suggest 1937, it is probably 1936...

1936 K60502 "Dresdner" piano made for Higgins, Manchester keyboard labelled "Made by Kemble", dated 18/12/36 on the keys, according to John Dixon, Africa.