J.B.Cramer & Co Piano - Age

[mr_mk_parker]

I would like to understand the age of my JB Cramer & Co Piano.

It needs new strings, but nevertheless its a beautiful piece.
The story behind it goes something like this, A large house in Knighton purchased it
from a shop in chester and used it for many years until the owner donated it to the
pub across the road where it was played for years until it was pushed across the road to a house
not 20 yards away from the pub and original owner. over time the house became in to disrepair
and the piano sat until a developer purchased the house and put the piano on ebay, where I purchased
it.

Ive not seen one like this, well designed with its beautiful fret work, and inner
workings.

If anyone can help date it I would be most greatful.

[Colin Nicholson]

Possibly 1870s .....
Looks a nice piano, but sometimes, beauty + age does not equate to value
Internal workings are over-damped (bird cage action)
Keep fingers crossed it can be 'roughly' tuned by a piano tuner... if not, would make a nice piece of furniture.

[Bill Kibby]

The name suggests that it might be after 1865. It would help me a lot if I could see photos to show what the WHOLE piano looks like. My Victorian page
http://www.pianohistory.info/victorian.html
mentions that around the 1870s, some London firms were starting to imitate the style of the French Pianinos, instead of the London Cottage Pianos. The dates published for Cramers' numbers are not reliable, some pianos do not correspond to them, including some (like this) which are very much in the style of the Pianino, around the 1870s, when Cramers boasted the largest showroom in Europe. Cramers' Liverpool numbers are different again!

This style remained very similar from the 1840s to the 1880s, I can only guess that it might be from around 1882. Dale was certainly at that address by 1886.

If you want to search for clues inside the piano, have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html

[mr_mk_parker]

Possibly 1870s .....
Looks a nice piano, but sometimes, beauty + age does not equate to value
Internal workings are over-damped (bird cage action)
Keep fingers crossed it can be 'roughly' tuned by a piano tuner... if not, would make a nice piece of furniture.

Thanks Colin, much appreciated

[mr_mk_parker]

The name suggests that it might be after 1865. It would help me a lot if I could see photos to show what the WHOLE piano looks like. My Victorian page
http://www.pianohistory.info/victorian.html
mentions that around the 1870s, some London firms were starting to imitate the style of the French Pianinos, instead of the London Cottage Pianos. The dates published for Cramers' numbers are not reliable, some pianos do not correspond to them, including some (like this) which are very much in the style of the Pianino, around the 1870s, when Cramers boasted the largest showroom in Europe. Cramers' Liverpool numbers are different again!

I can only guess that it might be from around 1882. Dale was certainly at that address by 1886.

If you want to search for clues inside the piano, have a look at
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html

Thanks Bill - very much appreciated

here is the whole piano

20151210_233526.jpg (45.24 KiB) Viewed 15586 times

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks, how lovely to see an uncluttered picture of the PIANO! These appear to be French-made, we have no idea who manufactured them, and their serial numbers do not correspond to normal Cramers mentioned at
http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html

That page also mentions a similar problem with Kirkman numbers.

[mr_mk_parker]

Thanks, how lovely to see an uncluttered picture of the PIANO! These appear to be French-made, we have no idea who manufactured them, and their serial numbers do not correspond to normal Cramers mentioned at
http://www.pianohistory.info/numbers.html

That page also mentions a similar problem with Kirkman numbers.

Thanks Bill - Fascinating stuff! possibly French hey

[Bill Kibby]

Have you had a chance to search inside for clues?

[Colin Nicholson]

If you need to remove the mechanism for clues, I would recommend only to recline it forward, but still resting on the key capstans, so the bridle tapes are not under any strain. Looking at the first set of images (photo 1), the bridle tape leather tips look very weak and possibly perished (where joined to the bridle wires), and the glue joints/ hessian tape joins at the back may also be perished, and easily ready to break.... might be best to contact a piano tuner who can remove and relocate the mechanism safely, assuming tapes are strong enough. If any break, and should the mechanism be replaced with collapsed undercarriages & jacks, this can cause major damage to the internal parts. Take care if you decide to inadvertently remove something to look further.