RUSHWORTH & DREAPER

[JAMES CARLTON]

Hi all,am thinking of buying the above on line,no.15810 small 6 octave upright model,would this have an iron frame,as the seller states he doesn't know,any help appreciated.

[Colin Nicholson]

The numbers you give are not registered (no serial numbers available) & seems quite an old piano.
Even if the numbers were available, this doesn't give iron frame/ structure information, but if the piano is say 1920s onwards, it is likely to be cast iron.
There are also several different kinds of frame design:-

1. Three-quarter frame/ capping bar top
1a. Wooden framed with iron brace bars (AVOID!)
2. Full frame with exposed wrest plank
3. Full frame - protected wrest plank (recommended like all modern pianos).

The only way to see the frame properly is to remove the top AND bottom panels/ remove mechanism*, and take a photo.
Send the photo here and we may be able to help.

*If the piano is very old, there are risks involved removing the mechanism if the bridle tapes are weak or broken. always seek professional help and get an inspection by a piano tuner. The mechanism should only be removed if the bridle tapes (or costa springs & loops) are in tact and working normal.

Colin

[JAMES CARLTON]

Thank you Colin for your help,this is the only info i have, "The dimensions are 100cm long 112cm high and 54cm front to back. This is a wood construction. It has 36 white keys and 25 black key" i asked if it had an iron frame,but he doesn't seem to know or how to check,£70 no money but a fair distance away to go to find out that it's rubbish,possible advice please,regards J.

[NewAge]

I'm not sure where you are located, but if in UK, it's a buyers market, and not usually particularly advantageous to a private seller.
Not sure why you are so taken by a 6-octave model (perhaps by virtue of it's slightly smaller footprint), but you are wise in assuring that it's an iron frame.
In your position, and recognizing it's a buyers market, I would contact the seller and tell him you are ready to purchase the piano on the following conditions:
That he clearly advises you if it's an iron frame, or, send you clear photos with the top and bottom panels removed showing the mechanism.
AND: He confirms that the piano has been recently tuned, AND (most importantly) holds tune. This wouldn't be necessary of course with a piano just for a show-piece, in which case I'd look around for a free piano.
If he refuses to provide the information you require, imho he is doing you a favour and saving you the possibility of buying a lemon.
Never, NEVER buy a piano without seeing and playing it or having a tech check it out first and giving the thumbs up. Seriously, the piano forums I have read in several different countries are full of buyers remorse, having purchased a piano 'unseen'. Frequently wasted money, with a further kick up the backside when they realize they have to pay to get the 'thing' taken away.
If he confirms with photos that it's an iron frame, but without a very recent satisfactory tune, and you feel you must proceed, offer him 50 pounds take it or leave it deal.
Furthermore if you ever wish to sell the piano, with 6-octaves one is seriously limiting the already difficult sellers market. You are the one holding the aces in this deal. Please use them to your advantage.

[Colin Nicholson]

Sound advice there.
Here is a typical example of a piano purchased on-line/ un-played / not tested/ not tuned or checked over. In our area, removal is about £80 - £100. Piano may be free or bought for very little.... so say £150 tops for piano & removal. Anyway, one of my students (who I teach piano) recommended me to a new bistro Manager after just buying a piano to have it tuned.... wonderful place; state of the art sound equipment/ oak bar tops/ expensive furnishings etc. I received a text: "Please can you tune our piano?" .... so we exchanged details, and 2 weeks ago, I visited the new bistro/ bar/ restaurant to "tune" their piano. When I arrived - about 10am, it was a 1920s style upright, the front top panel was missing.... maybe they used it for "Chas & dave" events??

To my horror, the piano was over a tone flat - so even a pitch raise wouldn't be stable enough for the piano used as accompaniment. Most of the hammers wobbled excessively side to side/ very loose centres/ some striking the next door notes! .... and to finish it off, there was a huge crack in the wrest plank, just above the middle break where the tuning pins were clustered together more...... so in all, I charged £75 for my time & labour in desperately trying to tune it.... however, for the tuning to be successful, the piano would need to be taken away and some attempt made to improve the mechanism, but the wrest plank/ loose pins still lies. I quoted about £990.00.

So there we are.... about £225 chucked down the drain.

[vernon]

Colin
You must be barmy to even get involved with a turkey like that.
Nobody will end up happy.
Swan Vesta job

[Colin Nicholson]

James.....

How far is a "reasonable distance" ? .... and can you send us a link of the advert? (Copy/ paste it here).

The dimensions of a piano tell us nothing about the frame design, just its size. Many short/ mini pianos (eg Eavestaff mini) have full iron frames.... and these pianos are barely waist high, yet much taller pianos may have a 3/4 frame. Generally speaking, the height of the piano also determines the length and sound quality of the bass strings.
If the piano is straight-strung/ over-damped, some are 3/4 frame or full frame with exposed wrest plank, but in essence, you can only find this out by taking the panels off and looking. Mechanism design & tuning pin torque is also an important issue.... so best to contact a piano tuner more local to check the piano out - worth every penny. If the seller is being evasive in any way, walk away. OR.... take a risk, and buy it..... then find out later if it can be tuned.... just like my restaurant chap did. If the piano is pre 1900, and like a cottage piano (google "cottage piano"), some have wooden frames.... the legs are often spindle shaped and have small castors; ....

anyway, good luck with your decision.

[JAMES CARLTON]

Thank you all for your great advice,i've decided to leave it alone,kind regards James.