Brunger upright

[e page]

Hello
I have a ''BRUNGER'' piano. It's straight strung, 3/4 frame and over-damped. The tuning pins are reasonably tight but its 2 semi-tones flat. I'd like to know its age and possibly the manufacturer. On the left hand side of the pin block the numbers 17609 appear, 6203 on the keys and 23185 on the action, though no action maker name. "HarmonyHall.GW" is marked on the edge of the upper panel, which is made from plywood. The iron frame has "HC&S 214 B". Eamon

[Colin Nicholson]

Might help if we saw the action..... where is it?
Looks an early 1900s that has been modernised for 1930s
Not heard of name, so could be a "stencil piano" (google for info)

Many piano wholesalers added their own branded name to pianos in decal form.
Action could be herrburger brooks

[Bill Kibby]

Perhaps Vernon Kennard will have something to add about this, because if you google Brunger pianos you will be directed to my Names page
http://www.pianohistory.info/names.html
which explains that Brunger was a name made up by the Edinburgh Co-Op for pianos made for them by Kennard. Their models from the twenties and thirties included some that look like Art Deco, so it is difficult to be sure whether this was modernised, or original. The modernisation process is explained near the bottom of my Edwardian page
http://www.pianohistory.info/edwardian.html
which also has some illustrations of Kennard models, although not labelled separately.

The frame marks are illustrated on my Date-Marks page
http://www.pianohistory.info/datemarks.html
and these appear in many pianos around the twenties and thirties. Harmony Hall was a dealer around 1930, I have no details. No dates of Kennard numbers are available, so unless the keys are dated, it is unlikely we can give a definite date.

[e page]

Colin
There isn't any name on the action, just a number. It has tapes like modern actions.
Eamon

[Colin Nicholson]

Eamon,
There doesn't need to be a name stamped on the action.... often by comparison with other actions I have seen (with or without HB on).... it could be Herrburger by its looks. Later actions also may have hammer butt springs & loops, some earlier ones didn't, and the flanges were attached from behind the action instead of behind the jacks at the front.

Try lifting out key A1 ? .... sometimes a date (or comments) on there, but pencilled dates are not always reliable. HB often made the keys aswell. There also may be tuners' comments/ repair notes & a date ....but this usually only indicates when there was activity on the piano.... you may be fortunate.

On rare occasions.... there may be a proper inked date stamp on the side of an undercarriage (whippen), or underneath (capstan area).... but take care if the tapes are fragile, they may break.

Here is an example I came across a day later after removing the Erard grand whippens...... nice to see, and the date 1904 matches the serial number..... but not sure about the name.... perhaps Bill may know?

Pianos are sometimes full of hidden surprises!

Erard whippen A1

[Bill Kibby]

After-thoughts on the Brunger:

1). It was probably modernised, the front edges of the case are not well finished, and the shoulders are rounded, whereas my picture shows shaped shoulders.

2). The name, being all plain capitals, could have been made up from separate letters, so it might not be a Brunger at all!

3). Kennards used Gamble actions.

Sorry Colin, I don't know what you mean about the name. It's an Erard isn't it? Did you mean P. Chappet? He is presumed to be a supervisor or foreman at the Erard factory, who imprinted his name as a way of saying he had checked it.

Is this one Erard Paris or London?

[e page]

Colin,
I see what you mean about HB actions looking similar, well this one has no hammer butt springs and the wippen and hammer flange screws are facing the strings. On the key A1 and key frame there are some pencil markings 14 1/2 x 8 1/4 and 6243.

Bill,
It well may have been modernised, at the corners are pieces of wood that were poorly glued in place and stick out about 3 mm from the vertical edge. The music desk hinges don't fit in the cut slots (see photos) so its possible it was worked on.

I have a question about the dampers. When the action is out of the piano they sit evenly on the lift rail (which isint warped) which pivots on flanges either end but when in the piano, the strings lift them off the that rail, in some places so when the damper pedal is pressed they don't all rise at the same time. I know the dampers have to rest on the strings in order to work, but is it a fruitless endeavor to try to correct this since the nut at the top of the action affects the performance by squeezing the dampers closer to the strings. Is is better to leave as is because the flange rail has flex in it anyway?
Thanks
Eamon

[Colin Nicholson]

Ideally, when the action is in - there should be a uniform small gap between the top of the front whippen bushed end and the underside of the lift wire's wooden dolly with felt on.... so the hammers move first (about half their journey to the strings - 25mm ish), then the dampers should lift off afterwards. Usually through age/ warpage/ shrinkage/ damper head wires bending/ felt worn etc.... these gaps are sometimes more uniform in the extreme octaves - as not used as much, but in the middle octaves - sometimes all over the place. If the dollies are resting on the whippens and the dampers move with the hammers, this causes a heavier touch. If there are large gaps, the damper will lift off too late.

Adjusting the lift wires need great care, as the top flanges sometimes break! .... but if they turn OK, (hold the top flange with pliers) - then lift the wire out of the whippen and adjust. Yes, when the action is out, gravity takes over, and everything looks nice and neat. If the whole action needs regulating/ key dip etc.... it may not have much effect, but might improve the simultaneous lift with the pedal.... on over-damped, the two are tricky to get perfection.

Bill.... yes, it's an Erard Paris grand - under-damped . Full works except for cabinet. Thanks for the info on the name.

[Bill Kibby]

When the action is in position, the dampers will be held slightly off the damper lift, there should be some slack play between them. Unfortunately, overdampers are not capable of precise adjustment. The central nut that holds the action in place should have another one behind, which stays in position to stop the nut going in too far. In a crude way, you can use the nut to adjust to the best positon, so that the dampers stop the strings, but can still lift, it is pointless seeking finesse in overdampers. You need to think of their limitations as a characteristic of the instrument.

[vernon]

As far as I gathered Cousin Bertram's pianos were called Kennard or Drannek, or Brunger for the Scottish market.
They were only good middle of the road trade pianos so I can't think anyone would be bothered to put a fictitious name on them.
They were made in London N16 in their factory that became Kembles in due course.

[Bill Kibby]

Well, I had no idea that their factory was taken over by Kembles!

[vernon]

Carysfort Rd N.16 I am sure I was told by my Dad, tho' he did tell many things, some of which proved a bit off the mark.

[Bill Kibby]

I have found it in my files, I was told a long time ago by somebody called Vernon Kennard!