Help required with a George Russell identification please
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Help required with a George Russell identification please
Post by Janiepooh_7 »
Hello,
I recently acquired a George Russell piano. Whilst I played as a child I am in no way an expert on the topic and I'm hoping for some help with identifying the age of the instrument as my preliminary searches have been fruitless.
There are two identifiable numbers on the instrument, the first -24521- is stamped onto the wood on one of the support struts of the frame and the second number -1010243- is cast into the metal soundboard. There is also an image of a man bent over/ at work embossed into the soundboard. The soundboard appears to have been coated in copper as there are accents of a green tarnish to the part.
On the outside of the wood case there is a swathe/swag motif cut into the central wood panel ( the area behind the music stand)
I live in Dorset (on the border of Hampshire) and I am hoping for a recommendation for a local tuner/restorer also.
Many thanks, Jane
I recently acquired a George Russell piano. Whilst I played as a child I am in no way an expert on the topic and I'm hoping for some help with identifying the age of the instrument as my preliminary searches have been fruitless.
There are two identifiable numbers on the instrument, the first -24521- is stamped onto the wood on one of the support struts of the frame and the second number -1010243- is cast into the metal soundboard. There is also an image of a man bent over/ at work embossed into the soundboard. The soundboard appears to have been coated in copper as there are accents of a green tarnish to the part.
On the outside of the wood case there is a swathe/swag motif cut into the central wood panel ( the area behind the music stand)
I live in Dorset (on the border of Hampshire) and I am hoping for a recommendation for a local tuner/restorer also.
Many thanks, Jane
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Re: Help required with a George Russell identification pleas
Post by Colin Nicholson »
Hi Jane,
Welcome to the forum.
George Russell pianos are quite common to most tuners, and a piano tuner of any status should be able to tune it fine. Perhaps look in your local Yellow Pages or yell.com as a start.
I'm afraid there are no serial numbers published for Russell, only a date of becoming established - 1842. Many old piano companies had small factories, making around 1000 pianos before the war.... then who knows if the company survived? The piano census (serial number) book also does not list any numbers.
You may be confusing the soundboard for other structural parts of the piano.... the soundboard is behind the strings, and starts about 3/4 of the way up the piano. If you remove the bottom panel (that reveals the pedal workings), you will see the large expanse of soundboard behind the strings - attached to it are the raised/ notched bridges with pins that steer the strings towards the hitch pins.
The top section which you refer to as being 'green tarnished' may either be the cast frame (3/4 size) - or more likely to be a cast iron capping bar or wrest plank plating. This was meant to make a piano look like a full iron frame, but in fact it is just added for deco and added weight. Many of these pianos were straight-strung and over-damped.
If your mechanism has a wooden rail above the hammers, and about 65 lift wires at the front - it is over-damped. Straight-strung means all the strings are running vertical & parallel to one another, maybe changing to an oblique shape further up the treble end.
If you can take a picture of the whole piano (including legs), and also take a photo of the front panel removed (open top lid, and turn the 2 wooden turn buckles about 45 degrees to release), and we may be able to give a rough date within 10 years by looking at the mechanism.... which may look similar to a bird cage at the front?
If you press the right (sustain) pedal, watch all the lift rods move vertically upwards together. Previous tuners often leave chalked letters near the tuning pins.... F A C E to denote the correct tuning pin for the string.... as the mechanism completely covers up the stringing area at the top.
Carved wood panelling was popular in the early 1900s - and sometimes included floral/ leafy designs/ Mother of Pearl and fret work with a back cloth. There may also be various holes filled in (making the shape of a diamond) where sconces were once fitted. Many of these pianos still have a nice tone in the treble areas, but are often uneconomical to fully restore due to the damper arrangement (and notes ringing on?). Tuning may need an assessment first to see the hammer spacing (behind the wires), and if the piano is "tuneable" during the first visit. As a rough guide, by the image you show.... this may be dated around 1900 - 1910. Clues on the side of the first left piano key may have writing/ date stamp on its side.... key tops were usually celluloid.
The lid that covers the keys (fallboard) also lifts clean off! .... located into a recess joint.... hold the fallboard at front and back, and lift vertically.... take care not to catch your fingers on the sharp points of the lift wires, which pass through the undercarriages.
Some numbers are also 'stock' or 'parts' numbers and cannot be traced - even if a newer piano.
Hope that helps for start....
Colin
Welcome to the forum.
George Russell pianos are quite common to most tuners, and a piano tuner of any status should be able to tune it fine. Perhaps look in your local Yellow Pages or yell.com as a start.
I'm afraid there are no serial numbers published for Russell, only a date of becoming established - 1842. Many old piano companies had small factories, making around 1000 pianos before the war.... then who knows if the company survived? The piano census (serial number) book also does not list any numbers.
You may be confusing the soundboard for other structural parts of the piano.... the soundboard is behind the strings, and starts about 3/4 of the way up the piano. If you remove the bottom panel (that reveals the pedal workings), you will see the large expanse of soundboard behind the strings - attached to it are the raised/ notched bridges with pins that steer the strings towards the hitch pins.
The top section which you refer to as being 'green tarnished' may either be the cast frame (3/4 size) - or more likely to be a cast iron capping bar or wrest plank plating. This was meant to make a piano look like a full iron frame, but in fact it is just added for deco and added weight. Many of these pianos were straight-strung and over-damped.
If your mechanism has a wooden rail above the hammers, and about 65 lift wires at the front - it is over-damped. Straight-strung means all the strings are running vertical & parallel to one another, maybe changing to an oblique shape further up the treble end.
If you can take a picture of the whole piano (including legs), and also take a photo of the front panel removed (open top lid, and turn the 2 wooden turn buckles about 45 degrees to release), and we may be able to give a rough date within 10 years by looking at the mechanism.... which may look similar to a bird cage at the front?
If you press the right (sustain) pedal, watch all the lift rods move vertically upwards together. Previous tuners often leave chalked letters near the tuning pins.... F A C E to denote the correct tuning pin for the string.... as the mechanism completely covers up the stringing area at the top.
Carved wood panelling was popular in the early 1900s - and sometimes included floral/ leafy designs/ Mother of Pearl and fret work with a back cloth. There may also be various holes filled in (making the shape of a diamond) where sconces were once fitted. Many of these pianos still have a nice tone in the treble areas, but are often uneconomical to fully restore due to the damper arrangement (and notes ringing on?). Tuning may need an assessment first to see the hammer spacing (behind the wires), and if the piano is "tuneable" during the first visit. As a rough guide, by the image you show.... this may be dated around 1900 - 1910. Clues on the side of the first left piano key may have writing/ date stamp on its side.... key tops were usually celluloid.
The lid that covers the keys (fallboard) also lifts clean off! .... located into a recess joint.... hold the fallboard at front and back, and lift vertically.... take care not to catch your fingers on the sharp points of the lift wires, which pass through the undercarriages.
Some numbers are also 'stock' or 'parts' numbers and cannot be traced - even if a newer piano.
Hope that helps for start....
Colin
AA Piano Tuners UK
Colin Nicholson Dip. Mus. CMIT CLCM PTLLS
Piano tuning & repairs. Full UK restoration service
http://www.aatuners.com
Tuition ~ Accompaniment ~ Weddings
http://www.pianotime1964.com
Member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen
Colin Nicholson Dip. Mus. CMIT CLCM PTLLS
Piano tuning & repairs. Full UK restoration service
http://www.aatuners.com
Tuition ~ Accompaniment ~ Weddings
http://www.pianotime1964.com
Member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen
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Re: Help required with a George Russell identification pleas
Post by Gill the Piano »
Also if you repost this on the piano history thread, Bill there has a lot of records not available to most people and may be able to help re dates.
I play for my own amazement...
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Re: Help required with a George Russell identification pleas
Post by Janiepooh_7 »
Hi Colin and fellow piano enthusiasts,
I thought I would just leave a quick post with a report back from the tuner. Apparently the piano is valued at being at least 100 years old, this was due to the strings - some of which needed replacing.
It does have an over dampened sound but my mother in law is thrilled none the less. The keys were all in great condition. Thank you so much for all the information and advice.
Regards, Jane
I thought I would just leave a quick post with a report back from the tuner. Apparently the piano is valued at being at least 100 years old, this was due to the strings - some of which needed replacing.
It does have an over dampened sound but my mother in law is thrilled none the less. The keys were all in great condition. Thank you so much for all the information and advice.
Regards, Jane
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