Sames baby Grand Piano

[frandrew]

Hi Bill, I have just acquired a Sames 5' Baby Grand Piano and have been trying to find out about the company and my new piano. It has a number stamped on the underside of the case and on the lyre 24864 and was supplied originally by a Piano Retailer in Windsor - Dyson and Son. (Stamped into the inside of the case is Dyson & Son 2691 Windsor) My piano tuner tells me that the gate legs suggest it was built in the mid 1920's. I have read a lot of stuff about how there was a fire at the Mozart Works in 1913 and again in 1928 which ended production, though other sources suggest production continued till 1935 at another piano factory. I am blown away by the quality of this piano and tonally it compares very favourably with my Bechstein Model IV. If there is any more you can tell me about Sames and this particular instrument I'd be most grateful. The Piano Tuner's Bible doesn't seem to have any info re piano numbers and dates - I'm guessing that this may be because records were lost in the fire of 1928. Any info will be most gratefully received. Andrew.

[Bill Kibby]

I have lots of their numbers on file, but no firm dates until 1934 which was said to have been the last they made - #28821.

Same was established in 1855, but not as piano makers. The company was started by Jacob Sames, born 1830 in Frankfurt. The 1886 Birmingham Directory lists William Sames, 14 & 15 Holloway Head; Pianoforte Dealers and Harmonium Manufacturers, Birmingham.

1886 Kelly's Directory lists William Sames among the Pianoforte Makers and Warehouses, at 14, 16 & 18 Holloway Head; works, Windmill Street, Birmingham.

1890 Birmingham Directory lists William Sames among the Pianoforte Makers, at 14, 16 & 18 Holloway Head, Birmingham. & Harmonium manufacters. (Not Ltd.) Their ad shows the piano factory.

[frandrew]

Thanks very much for all of this. The info about Sames' last piano #28821 in 1934 makes me wonder (based on the thought that many manufacturers seem to have allotted 1000 numbers per year) if my piano 24864 was built after 1928 when the Ombersley Road factory was destroyed by fire. Incidentally the name plate on the lid is 'SAMES LONDON'.
Do you think it possible that this piano was built for Sames after they lost their factory by Kemble or another London Firm?

[Bill Kibby]

This doesn't follow Kemble numbers, it is still continuing Sames numbers, but obviously before 1934. Probably a few years before. If they were working on a thousand per year, that would suggest 1930.

[Bill Kibby]

#11839 is definitely 1905. Between 1905 and 1934, they averaged 585 numbers per year, although this is not necessarily real production, so this would suggest that yours was made around 1927.

The Ombersley Road factory building can still be seen on Google Earth, at the junction with Woodfield Road.

[frandrew]

Many thanks for all you have been able to tell me about this piano. I find myself wondering if anyone knows where Sames production continued after the loss of the Ombersely Road Factory in 1928. Did the Sames staff continue to build pianos in Birmingham?

[Bill Kibby]

The factory was not lost, as I said, it is still on Google Earth, but I don't know if they re-used it. Some Sames pianos seem to have been made by Kemble or Bansall, but they have different numbers.

[frandrew]

Bill, thanks so much for all your assistance with my enquiries. Thinking about the 'last years' of Sames production post the 1928 fire I had perhaps mistakenly concluded from other posts on this subject that whilst the shell of the building survived (I believe it is now an Islamic Centre) there had been no further production on the site due to the total loss of the interior, tools & machinery etc, together with the alleged bankruptcy of Sames' insurers. It may well be that the site of production from 1928 - 34 will remain a matter for conjecture. Should anyone else reading this have further info about Sames' last years I'd be really interested to hear from you. Thanks again Bill for all your help.

[frandrew]

I have just received some information from a local history group in Balsall Heath regarding the 2nd Sames factory fire. I have been sent a newspaper article (Yorkshire Evening Post) dated Thursday 30th August 1923 which speaks of a great fire which began at 1am on the top floor of the Sames factory. The fire ran down the length of the building affecting also their wood store and wood piled up outside the building. Also a drapers shop and 4 nearby houses were affected. The date 1923 suggests (as you have pointed out Bill) that the factory was not destroyed and that Sames managed to get production going again till 1934/35. I guess the trouble is that stories from so long ago tend to get confused with the passing of time. I have read in other post on this site of how Leonard Sames and the Insurance Co went broke after the 2nd fire. The insurance company may well have, but Sames clearly managed to carry on. Hope this is of some interest.

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks, that is interesting, that seems to make THREE fires! Confusion is common, but it is broadcast more widely by the internet.

1913 Article from The Times describes a factory fire, which doesn't seem to have been their most devastating one.

[Alamtab]

The factory was not lost, as I said, it is still on Google Earth, but I don't know if they re-used it. Some Sames pianos seem to have been made by Kemble or Bansall, but they have different numbers.

Hi
I am Alamtab, from Karachi Pakistan .. I have a black Baby grand Piano SAMES ..
I'll post the photos..