Seeking Piano restorers to work on an Erard

[Minsky]

Hi

I have an 1894 Erard (baby Grand). It requires work although a full appraisal would be required to establish quite how much. The piano is currently in North Finchley (London). I am anxious to arrange viewings of the instrument to any interested parties, as soon as possible. Please contact me for further details or if you know of someone who might be interested.

Minsky (Jules)

[Colin Nicholson]

I think the price you initially quoted (between 8-12K) is a good ball-park figure to go by.
The price would be variable depending on what you required.
Very risky restoring a piano of that age, unless the main structural areas are sound.

Here is some advice.....

During an assessment/ inspection, the wrest plank must be tested for stability. If any tuning pins are very loose, or cracks in the wrest plank.... that bumps the price right up to the max quote for a new plank.

Also, the damper wires must be checked for their condition & design type. (Action to be removed)
On Erards, the damper heads & felts are located under the strings yeh? .... with the action & keyboard removed, the damper wires are located at the back of the action (bulkhead) - and separate to the action.

If the wires are not threaded and located into damper blocks & secured with grub screws - fine.
If the wires are threaded near the ends, and screwed (self tapped) into blocks - then these often have to be heated to get them out (due to rust/corrosion), and in some cases the wires break off due to metal fatigue. Huge job in this case, and very risky.

Also.... condition of hammer heads? if badly worn, new heads & shanks are recommended. Erard shanks are also different to standard shanks.

Would need to be re-strung aswell.... (by the photo) .... if any small cracks on the soundboard/ bridges - these can be repaired after strings taken off.

Casework.... full polish or tidy up?
Pedal lyre - probably rod guide felts need replacing.
If you want some prices.... please PM me (email)

Don't forget.... even after a detailed inspection.... everything on the piano has 'moulded' in its place for about 120 years.... removing screws, wires, flanges, tuning pins etc etc.... can cause anything to break (and into many pieces).
Eg.... on a Steinway A, the action looked 'OK' for 100 years, but after a stripdown, loads of flanges split, jack toes split into several pieces (due to dry joints) .... and I had to stop work until the customer agreed to paying more money.... bit like restoring an old water tower or barn conversion.... sometimes you never see the potential damage and breakages until everything it stripped down fully on the workshop bench.... THEN you can get a better idea of costs/ extra labour/ additional hand-made parts - carved & designed from scratch - because some parts are not available anymore. You may be lucky with it all.... but there is always that potential risk involved with old pianos.
In some cases (like a Bechstein 10 I restored), I said to the customer "all or nothing" .... piano dated 1907. he eventually agreed with his teeth firmly gritted, and a "good luck with the life-saving operation" .... in the end, it was an extra £500 for split sticker capstans, loads of rebushing flanges, and extra repairs to soundboard. Took me 4 months to complete.... however, a very happy customer, and no comebacks at all.

It is also not so much the statement "I would like my piano restored" .... or "I need a quotation for restoration" .... in some cases, the technician "calls the shots" .... and if there are major risks involved, they bump the price right off (possibly to put you off) , or walk away, or say "sorry sir, I wouldn't want any come back " .... bearing in mind the customer may have attempted to knock down the price face to face.
Piano restoration is massive amounts of repetitive labour.... and sometimes, even our hearts are in our mouths HOPING that nothing major goes wrong. You need to be well prepared for that - and that a restorer may assess your piano IF it is restorable, not just because the customer has asked for it to be done. Obviously comes with a price.

Finally,,,, then there is loads of 'aftercare' to do.. takes about 12-18 months for a piano to fully settle AFTER a restoration. Will need to be tuned over & over again every month or so for about 6 months, then keys may need re-easing after new bushings/ keys re-levelled/ action completely re-regulated again (to compensate for compression in new materials). Some customers pay for this in advance. Also consider warranty? new insurance value? .... lots to think about. I hope that I haven't put you off!
You need to book a full qualified technician who should check everything I have mentioned, including loads more things, and point out all the risks involved. If you then agree, you know where you stand.

Hope that helps

Colin

[NewAge]

As always, excellent, comprehensive advise by Colin.

[Barrie Heaton]

I would Try Broadwoods at the moment they are still not charging VAT so that will save you 20% over others

BTW Broadwoods Don't do emails just about do phones... but are happy to to get old-fashioned paper letters and you can see lots of their work at the Museum

Barrie

[Minsky]

Barrie -

Thank you for your recommendation - I know that it's a good one. I tried the good people of JB & sons but they weren't really interested. I think it was they who quoted up to £16k - probably to put me off. One of the gents there (I will spare his blushes by not using his name - suffice to say that he was senior in that company) was what can only be described as a bit 'brusque' - only just south of outright rude. I really got the impression that I was small-fry and that they had more important jobs to do. It was very disappointing as it was my first conversation with such a professional in the piano world. If I was to spend £16k with them (and it's not an issue as I don't have that sort of money to spend) then I'd want them to at least be polite about it!

I do thank you for taking the time and trouble to respond. many thanks!

Jules

[Minsky]

Colin -

This is great advice indeed...and way more than I had hoped for. Thank you!.

'I think the price you initially quoted (between 8-12K) is a good ball-park figure to go by.'
- I was afraid that you might say that. If that's the case then it looks like it's probably had its day. I can't run to that. I'm not sure what I was expecting though...what you say makes perfect sense. I guess I was just 'hoping.'

I do think that I'd be able to sink a small amount of money into an assessment. It makes sense to get a professional view (again - maybe when I'm there this time) as to what needs doing. I understand what you say about a quote being an 'enlightened guess' as things can become visible later on. I also recognise that some restorers will want to make the work worthwhile by charging an 'all or nothing' fee.

I had no idea about 'aftercare' but that too makes sense and it's good to be aware of before I jump into anything. thanks for that.


'A restorer may assess your piano IF it is restorable, not just because the customer has asked for it to be done.'
That's exactly what I want - a professional opinion that I can trust. When I had someone out to see it before I was unable to be there, which didn't help. I did feel that they didn't give me the proper attention. they had a report but I never saw it - they didn't really go through it - they just gave me (what to me was) a high quote. The conversation was under 3 minutes. It might well be that their figure was correct...but I need to understand it. I'm trying to save the piano from the axe and I recognise that it may not be possible but I need to be sure before it becomes firewood. Hopefully that makes sense.


'I hope that I haven't put you off!'
Ha! No, you have been straight with me - told me what I need to know in order to make an informed decision about the best way to go. That's exactly what I came here hoping for. Thank you.

I'll PM you.

Thanks again.

Jules

[Gill the Piano]

How about getting a staged quote - one for casework, one for restringing and one for action work? Not the ideal way but maybe a little more affordable.