Advice Needed

[WSL]

Greetings!

Following the posting in "Piano History", I am sorry to say that the excitement of acquiring my first piano has been dampened by the announcement of my tuner. His verdict was that my piano is so old and the damper was not functioning properly, it was simply not worth the hassle to even to make the piano more in tune! The tuner has also indicated that to have all the faults put right would cost a great deal of money, say, thousands of pounds. To further depress me, the tuner's accompaning mother seemed to spot some indications of woodworm on the timber on the inside of the piano behind the bottom panel. She's not 100% sure, she said.

I am beginning to think that I have made one big mistake to buy this piano, although it has a pleasant case with polished veneer and marquetry in the middle of the front panel.

Should I try to find another tuner? Should I call in an inspector? Should I sell it? Or should I part-exchange it for another piano of a sound condition?

I am only looking for a piano of a reasonable condition so that my partner can play on and I can begin to learn. Is there a moral in my experience?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

WSL (Colchester, Essex)

[Barrie Heaton]

it is not a well know piano and a possibility of WW I would part ex it - up here in the north I don't recommend clients spending more than 500 on a
Vertical strung over damper, and only if the tuning piano are in good nick.

Selling it on is a bit unethical but that is up to you Part exchange now that is a different matter that's the shops problem they should look at it first but most don't

Barrie,

[WSL]

Many thanks for your prompt reply!

Both my partner and I have realised that we've made a mistake, and we are certainly not going to make other individuals to feel the same by selling it on. Part exchange seems to be the only option for us if we do decide to dispose of it. Am I right in assuming that it is not even worth finding someone willing to tune it! Oh dear....

[Barrie Heaton]

Well if you lived in the US I would say try a different tuner as most over there don't like them when they are working well.

If the guy who visited you was an old tuner, he may have thought "O sod this for a game I don't need this.... " a younger tuner may look at the piano differently $$$$ I need the cash....


But remember woodworm eats all wood that includes the house you live in - it is a lot simpler to sell a piano with WW than a house infested with it


Barrie

[WSL]

Re. the woodworm issue, I shall get a second opinion on that. I must admit that personally I can't find anything suspicious except one tiny hole in the timber. There is no fresh wood dust anywhere apart from cobweb and old dust.

Re. tuning, again, I may try another tuner. I shall explain to him/her the condition of the piano, plus the first tuner's opinions, see if he/she is willing to take a look at it.

A bit more physical description of the piano. It's got brass candle holders, except that the holders have gone missing. There are also brass handles on both sides of the piano, complete with a pair of grab holes/handles on the back of the piano. There is also a music stand that can be folded away under the top lid. Are they the characteristics of Victorian pianos?

I'm afraid that I don't know much about piano except that I had a few lessons when I was a little school boy, and I am very fond of music. I have always admired people who can play beautiful piano music, and I have never stopped wanting to pick up my piano lessons again. As you can imagine, buying this first piano of mine isn't proving to be a entirely joyful experience at all. I might visit a second-hand piano shop in the area over the weekend to explore the possibly of part-exchange.

Regards

[Barrie Heaton]

A bit more physical description of the piano. It's got brass candle holders, except that the holders have gone missing. There are also brass handles on both sides of the piano, complete with a pair of grab holes/handles on the back of the piano. There is also a music stand that can be folded away under the top lid. Are they the characteristics of Victorian pianos?

Hmm I wonder if it is a spring and loop action I tend to walk for them these days.

Take off The top panel look at the action see if it looks like this one with the little red tape ends well some times they are different colours
http://www.uk-piano.org/history/images/verts.html

[WSL]

Hail the genius!
Yes, they (the action of mine and that of picture 2) do look remarkably similar. The appearances of my piano and the one in picture 1 are not not disimilar either. Where do all these similarities lead us? I'm intrigued.

Additionally, I have also been perplexed by all the chalk marks showing "2002" in various places of the piano. They appear at the back of the front panel, back of the bottom panel, inside the piano. There is also one marked by pencil in the top left-hand corner of the action (numbers in between string pins). What does "2002" signify in terms of the history/background of this piano. Has some work been done to it in 2002? It's still out of tune, though. lol.

Regards

[Barrie Heaton]

Hail the genius!
Yes, they (the action of mine and that of picture 2) do look remarkably similar. The appearances of my piano and the one in picture 1 are not not disimilar either. Where do all these similarities lead us? I'm intrigued.

Has it got the tape ends a spring and loop looks Very much like the photo but instead of the tape and bridal wire there is a spring and loop the tape one is the one to have

Additionally, I have also been perplexed by all the chalk marks showing "2002" in various places of the piano. They appear at the back of the front panel, back of the bottom panel, inside the piano. There is also one marked by pencil in the top left-hand corner of the action (numbers in between string pins). What does "2002" signify in terms of the history/background of this piano. Has some work been done to it in 2002? It's still out of tune, though. lol.

Regards

Could be work done in 2002 however, the tuning pins has they got chalk marks on them tuners use chalk to mark loos pins


Barrie,

[WSL]

At work now, must keep this short.

Correction: Pencil mark of "200" is also found NOT between pins, but strings under the pins. Checked last night after being on here.

Would it be appropriate for me to send you a few pictures of my piano (inside and outside)?

Regards
WSL

[Barrie Heaton]

Would it be appropriate for me to send you a few pictures of my piano (inside and outside)?

send them to piano @ a440.co.uk
and make the subject forum piano photos

Barrie,

[WSL]

Would it be appropriate for me to send you a few pictures of my piano (inside and outside)?

send them to piano@a440.co.uk
and make the subject forum piano photos

Barrie,

Dear Barries,
Please check you email for my message with pictures through Yahoo.

When I put the action back in this morning, it seemed to slot into place more properly. I don't know if it was my imagination, but the ring seemed to have reduced a little bit.
A friend of mine has come to inspect the wood, she said those spots were just mould which was caused by damp. Similar spots can also be found on the top of the action. The piano does need a good cleaning as it's very dusty.
Hope you have a good weekend.

[Barrie Heaton]

Not got them yet the was 300 in the piano in this morning but none with the
subject forum piano photos

Barrie,

[Barrie Heaton]

Dear Barries,
Please check you email for my message with pictures through Yahoo.

When I put the action back in this morning, it seemed to slot into place more properly. I don't know if it was my imagination, but the ring seemed to have reduced a little bit.
A friend of mine has come to inspect the wood, she said those spots were just mould which was caused by damp. Similar spots can also be found on the top of the action. The piano does need a good cleaning as it's very dusty.
Hope you have a good weekend.

It's a spring and loop action but by the looks of it, it is in good nick the biggest problem with them is that the loops perish. A good clean out works wonders with them the other big downside with your piano if it has loos pins there are felt collars round the tuning pins this stops us using a chemical fix to the problem but that can be ripped off but I hate doing that my self

Nice case

I would try a difrent tuner

Barrie,

[WSL]

Dear Barries,
Please check you email for my message with pictures through Yahoo.

When I put the action back in this morning, it seemed to slot into place more properly. I don't know if it was my imagination, but the ring seemed to have reduced a little bit.
A friend of mine has come to inspect the wood, she said those spots were just mould which was caused by damp. Similar spots can also be found on the top of the action. The piano does need a good cleaning as it's very dusty.
Hope you have a good weekend.

It's a spring and loop action but by the looks of it, it is in good nick the biggest problem with them is that the loops perish. A good clean out works wonders with them the other big downside with your piano if it has loos pins there are felt collars round the tuning pins this stops us using a chemical fix to the problem but that can be ripped off but I hate doing that my self

Nice case

I would try a difrent tuner

Barrie,

(Resent from work)

Dear Barrie,

Thanks for your reassuring words and advice.
I did try to clean the action, hammers, dampers and keys this morning. Hoover and paint brushes, etc. There was some success and some mishaps.

When cleaning the individual hammers with a small dry paint brush, the tiny springs of hammers 8 and 12 became dislodged from their bases (sorry, I haven't learned all the proper names of individual parts of a piano). I have tried to fix them but in vain. I think I'd better leave it to the professionals. Otherwise the cleaning has resulted in edification on my part, if not actual improvement in the quality of the sound and the piano itself.

A more "serious" defect in the keys is that the end section of the bottom (where the key strikes) of hammer 5 has broken off, obviously some time ago now. I didn't notice this until I got the piano.

Fortunately, all these keys are pretty low down where my present standard will not allow my fingers to reach. Question is, will it be a fairly straight forward job to put them right? If so, whom should I contact for help, and can it be done at my own home?

Re. the pins, by visual inspection and touch, they seem to be pretty firm. The red felts (?) look fairly fresh. My concern is whether or not the old strings will withstand the tuning?

Yes, I will try another tuner.

I am sorry that my problems seem endless. You have, however, shown such paitence and generousity, for which I am very grateful.

Regards
WSL

[Melodytune]

OK so the piano has a few problems, nothing that can't be sorted out by someone willing to take on a spring & loop action. From what Barrie says, it seems to be good generally and it may well be worth fixing. The springs that have come dislodged are probably as a result of the corrasponding loops being perished. The piano could probably well be tuned, but if the piano is very flat in pitch it may not be possible to raise the tuning to concert pitch as the strings are probably original. Are they rusty?

I hope you have more success with a tuner this time.
Regards

[Barrie Heaton]

(Resent from work)

Dear Barrie,

Thanks for your reassuring words and advice.
I did try to clean the action, hammers, dampers and keys this morning. Hoover and paint brushes, etc. There was some success and some mishaps.

When cleaning the individual hammers with a small dry paint brush, the tiny springs of hammers 8 and 12 became dislodged from their bases (sorry, I haven't learned all the proper names of individual parts of a piano). I have tried to fix them but in vain. I think I'd better leave it to the professionals. Otherwise the cleaning has resulted in edification on my part, if not actual improvement in the quality of the sound and the piano itself.

Sound like the springs snapped or it could have been the loops they are fragile the tuner will able to sot them if they are happy doing spring and loops that is

A more "serious" defect in the keys is that the end section of the bottom (where the key strikes) of hammer 5 has broken off, obviously some time ago now. I didn't notice this until I got the piano.

Fortunately, all these keys are pretty low down where my present standard will not allow my fingers to reach. Question is, will it be a fairly straight forward job to put them right? If so, whom should I contact for help, and can it be done at my own home?

Me thinks a photo would be useful here most jobes on the action can be done in the home if there are just a few, if it is a full section then the action is best taken away

Re. the pins, by visual inspection and touch, they seem to be pretty firm. The red felts (?) look fairly fresh. My concern is whether or not the old strings will withstand the tuning?

Yes, I will try another tuner.

tuning at the pitch it is at should be OK, if the piano is a long way down then pulling them up a bit helps the tone a lot.

As to who.....We don't have any members who tune in your area try the PTA
www.pianotuner.org.uk



Barrie

[WSL]

Dear Barrie,

Many thanks for your reply. Again, I'm sending this from work first thing this morning.

Re. another tuner, yes, I have found someone who came to inspect the piano and took notes of what needed doing. He was more positive and offered me some very welcome reassurance as regard the condition of the piano. We've made an appointment for him to come to tune and repair the piano to a workable condition. His estimate seems quite reasonable to us. I shall keep you updated about the tuning and repair as soon as they are completed.

Incidentally, this second tuner can also be found in the National Tuners' Association (?) website that you mentioned.

I can't thank you enough for all the advice and information that you've been so generous to provide. I'm very grateful.

Regards
WSL

[Melodytune]

I hope all goes well when your tuner repairs your piano. Do keep us posted as regards this.

Regards

[WSL]

I hope all goes well when your tuner repairs your piano. Do keep us posted as regards this.

Regards

Dear Chris of the Dr Johnson country and Barrie,

Just an update to let you know that all's well ends well. The tuner came in last Friday afternoon and spent 4 hours repairing and tuning my piano. I couldn't thank him enough for his wonderful work and tremendous patience. I felt quite guilty that I could only offer to refill his coffee, for chocolate and nice biscuits have been banned in this houshold (somebody's on diet)!

Althugh there are some keys which can be ineffective at times, we can now enjoy playing on the piano. I have now renewed my piano practice after 26 years, except that this time I am teaching myself from the piano tutorials that I've got out of the local library.

Could I say, please, should anybody require a tuner who can do repair in the north of Essex, Suffolk and Norfolk areas, please get in touch. I would strongly recommend my tuner.

Best wishes and warm regards
WSL

[Melodytune]

That's great news, I'm pleased the tuner did a great job for you and that you're able to prectise the piano again now after all that time.

Just one thought; I love chocolate biscuits.

[WSL]

That's great news, I'm pleased the tuner did a great job for you and that you're able to prectise the piano again now after all that time.

Just one thought; I love chocolate biscuits.

There will always be freshly made coffee (or tea) and chocoloate biscuits on offer whenever you are down this way. This is also an open invitation to Barrie.

best wishes and warm regards

[Barrie Heaton]

There will always be freshly made coffee (or tea) and chocoloate biscuits on offer whenever you are down this way. This is also an open invitation to Barrie.

best wishes and warm regards[/quote]

I will pass on the chocolate biscuits tea no sugar

Nice to hear you have been able to revive your piano please do post the Tuners name so other may use him in your area as there is a shortage of good tuners in many parts of the country who are willing to work on older pianos

Barrie,

[Melodytune]

Cheers. Tea with milk and 1 sugar and a couple of biscuits then would be great.

BTW. I've removed your duplicate post.

Regards

[WSL]

There will always be freshly made coffee (or tea) and chocoloate biscuits on offer whenever you are down this way. This is also an open invitation to Barrie.

best wishes and warm regards

I will pass on the chocolate biscuits tea no sugar

Nice to hear you have been able to revive your piano please do post the Tuners name so other may use him in your area as there is a shortage of good tuners in many parts of the country who are willing to work on older pianos

Barrie,[/quote]

The tuner who has shown such patience, skills and professionalism is Mr Mike Smith. Mr Simth's contact number can be found through the Find a Tuner in Your Local Areas link at the PTA website, http://www.pianotuner.org.uk
Mr Smith is based in Colchester, Essex.

Best
WSL

[Barrie Heaton]

Thanks

We use to have 15 members in Essex. But most are now dead not may folk coming into piano tuning there is going to be one hell of a shortage in about 15
years most of the tuners in may area are over 60 there are a few who are under 50

My next big project comes into the workshop tomorrow 7' 6 Royal Boudoir Broadwood Grand c1875


Barrie,

[WSL]

Thanks

We use to have 15 members in Essex. But most are now dead not may folk coming into piano tuning there is going to be one hell of a shortage in about 15
years most of the tuners in may area are over 60 there are a few who are under 50

My next big project comes into the workshop tomorrow 7' 6 Royal Boudoir Broadwood Grand c1875


Barrie,

Hmmm, do I sense a career change opportunity here!? But again I am 38 now and can't play decent piano. Mind you, a recent viewing of the film, The Pianist, by Roland Polanski has reanimated my desire to continue to learn.

Mr Smith also has a workshop where he carries out more demanding restoration and reconditioning projects.

Good luck with your project. I am sure both your client and yourself will be proud of the end result once it's finished. I wonder how a Grand of that history would sound? Must be fantastic to play on a Grand, though.

Regards
WSL

[Barrie Heaton]

Good luck with your project. I am sure both your client and yourself will be proud of the end result once it's finished. I wonder how a Grand of that history would sound? Must be fantastic to play on a Grand, though.

Regards
WSL

it is a stock piano but it is one of them pianos you wish you had not got it will turn into a labour of love rather than profit My partner got it grrr, it was a rescue piano some one has tried to do it up today was my first look at it the action was in 4 bags boy it will be good fun.

Barrie,