Another "should I restore" question, sorry!

caprica13 · Post by **caprica13** » 04 Apr 2005, 20:07

Some time ago I was given a beautiful Broadwood cottage upright, wooden framed, straight-strung and overdamped, serial no. 60072, which I date to between 1880-85 (unless someone can provide more accurate info). After reading some very useful posts on this forum, I removed the top keys to look for an actual date and although there was nothing written on the side, I did find two numbers stamped on the top two keys "5" "5". Could this be 1855 I wonder, or a completely different number to do with manufacture?

Anyway, date is interesting but doesn't provide me with a working piano unfortunately, as this particular one has been shamefully stored in a shed for about 5 years. It has had some water damage but is completely dry now, having stood in my dining room for two years resting and the damage appears to be to one area on the top of the case only. Also at some point in the past it has had a slight case of woodworm which must have been treated as it is barely noticeable and the woodworm are no longer there.

I have very carefully cleaned the inside of the piano, having removed the hammer section (displaying my ignorance here, as I'm afraid I don't know the correct terminology) and the keys and have removed about 100 years worth of dust, several matches (?!!) and a pin. The outside of the piano is really beautiful and I am intrigued by the history of the piece but really need to have a working piano. I suspect that the wooden frame may have been warped by the damp conditions in the shed (can't actually see this but can't imagine that it would not be) and the strings appear to be rusty. About 6 of the keys stick and it's hopelessly out of tune.

I have read any number of posts advising people not to bother restoring unless sentimental value is involved as the costs could run very high, although one response said that this did not include the "top 4 makes". Does a Broadwood fall into this category? Should I look into having it restored or is it a hopeless case? I did ask a local piano dealer who both sells & restores and he was very dismissive & negative (without having any info on the piano at all, other than that it was a Broadwood and had a wooden frame) and I suspect he was more interested in selling me a new piano.

I have never owned a piano of my own before, having enjoyed my parents Yamaha for many years. This is a big investment for me and I am in a dilemma - whether to spend my money restoring this beautiful and historic piano or whether to be dispassionate and just get rid of it and buy a new, plain but functional one. Any advice would be great please!

Thanks in advance (and apologies for a very long post).

Fiona

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 04 Apr 2005, 21:39

You would never ever get your money back on restoring an old wooden framed piano. A restring is over five hundred quid (well over! I'm being optimistic and allowing for the fact that you might live somewhere with a low cost of living!) and action work is as much again if you have it done completely. And as you say, it could be twisted, or the soundboard or tuning plank irreversibly damaged. Even drying it out too much/too fast could have hurt it.
Sorry to be negative, but it's best to be realistic. I have several customers with pianos like this, and we have an understanding that I just keep the action playing (curing notes as they stick/break) and keeping the notes in the right order, which is about all you can reasonably do. Could you find a sympathetic tuner/technician who'd do this?
If there's no hope even of that, I have one client who turned their dead piano (ho yes, it was VERY dead...

) into a drinks cabinet. After all, what does one pay for an antique late Victorian cabinet with (probably) beautiful inlay, ebony and ivory fittings and brass hinges?
Broadwood were the best British make and the oldest established, but as I said, unfortunately your piano isn't old enough or exceptional enough to be valuable and not well enough to be viable. Even when it was new, it wouldn't have been up to the ravages of Rachmaninov or Oscar Peterson - music moves on as well as music technology! Treat yourself to a workhorse and let the Broadwood retire gracefully - and probably gratefully!

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 04 Apr 2005, 21:43

Me again - sorry! I've looked up the number and your Broadwood appears to be between 1876 and 1884 - much closer to the 1884 end of that bracket.

caprica13 · Post by **caprica13** » 05 Apr 2005, 18:35

Hi Gill,

Thanks for your advice, it's very useful to see the situation through someone else's eyes, it removes the "rose-tinted specs" aspect! I think I have been side-tracked by the history and need to concentrate on finding a piano that is just that: a piano. The Broadwood is not currently functioning as a piano so I have decided to try and find somewhere safe to keep it until such time as I can find the money to either restore it fully as a museum piece or at least have it French-polished so it looks more acceptable as a piece of furniture. I've been back to my local piano dealer and looked at a variety of pianos & keyboards (not something I had considered before) and will choose, as you say, a workhorse. Poor old Broadwood! Sidelined in it's dotage

Thanks again,

Fiona

Brian Lawson, RPT · Post by **Brian Lawson, RPT** » 06 Apr 2005, 20:49

You could do this with it

Geminoz · Post by **Geminoz** » 07 Apr 2005, 05:06

Wow that is ingenuity...

but do you get people wanting to play it?

caprica13 · Post by **caprica13** » 07 Apr 2005, 08:36

I'm not sure I could bear to do that to the Broadwood, but I must admit it does look very good! Did you do it yourself or buy it already converted? And if you did it yourself, was it a big job?

Brian Lawson, RPT · Post by **Brian Lawson, RPT** » 07 Apr 2005, 12:21

That was actually done by a customer of mine, he just went at it with hammer, screwdrivers and chisel and took it to pieces, not the correct way but iin the end he got it done. Fitted the interion with mirror panels and shelves. Those are his cut glass crystal drinks glasses on the shelves.

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 07 Apr 2005, 16:56

SV's right; get a tuner's opinion before you consign the joanna to the garage for ever!
On the ingenious uses side, one customer has made a fishtank to fit inside the top half of a knackered piano. He now has a pianna full of piranha!

caprica13 · Post by **caprica13** » 07 Apr 2005, 17:20

A pianna full of piranha, lol!!

And no, I'm not planning to take anything sharp to the piano or do anything reversible until I'm very very sure (and that will probably be never). I just can't get my head around gutting a piano, it somehow ranks with cutting the pictures out of an old book to sell them, and throwing the book away. The Broadwood is currently residing in my dining room and taking up a lot of room (for a useless piece of furniture!) but looking very nice while it's doing it.

I'm still humming and hawing over a digital piano; not quite sure about that either but it would answer immediate issues like space & volume etc.

Ho hum...

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 07 Apr 2005, 17:26

Digitals take up as much floorspace as proper pianos - you only save on wall space.
The Broadwood doesn't eat anything; it's not costing anything except space, so there's no hurry in deciding what to do. Keep running your fingers over the keys, though, to keep it moving.

caprica13 · Post by **caprica13** » 07 Apr 2005, 18:13

I might have to invest in some ear plugs if I've got to keep playing it... it really does sound appalling!

Although, since I've got nothing to lose, I might try tweaking the tuning slightly to see if I can improve it a little. And if a few more strings snap, who's going to notice?!

BTW, the digital piano I'm currently looking at is the Roland F50, which does seem quite compact to me. The frame is only marginally wider than the keyboard and it has no height at all. I'm mainly looking at this one because my local piano dealer has a pretty good offer on it and will throw in a matching piano stool for free

I've played it a little and for a non-mechanical "piano" the tone is OK (no digital piano will ever sound or play like a real one in my opinion) and the key touch is reasonable... but I'm still debating. What do you think?

caprica13 · Post by **caprica13** » 07 Apr 2005, 18:27

Also the Roland HP101 which looks equally good...

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 07 Apr 2005, 19:33

caprica13 wrote:I'm not sure I could bear to do that to the Broadwood, but I must admit it does look very good! Did you do it yourself or buy it already converted? And if you did it yourself, was it a big job?

I company I use to work for back in the early 80s did them all the time cocktail and writing desks quite a few ended up in Harrods there is a guy in the US who make them into computer desks

We did a Bechstein model 8 once beautiful case the frame was shot it was made into a cocktail cabinet we did look into fitting a keyboard so it still would play but the bosses thought it was to expensive We did shed fulls of Broadwoods

Barrie,

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 07 Apr 2005, 22:27

"No digital piano will ever sound or play like a real one..." You said it! So why not get a proper one? Go ooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnn....you know you want to!

Think what a real one will be worth in five years' time. And think what a digital will be worth in five years' time...! (I have a genuine gift for spending everyone else's money - and it doesn't hurt a bit!

)

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 08 Apr 2005, 18:31

"No digital piano will ever sound or play like a real one" - you said it! So why not get a proper one? Go ooooooooooooooonnnn, you know you want to!

Think what a plastic one will be worth in five years' time...then think what the real one will be worth!(I have decided that I have a singular talent for spending everyone else's money...and it doesn't hurt a bit!

)

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Another "should I restore" question, sorry!

Another "should I restore" question, sorry!

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should I restore

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