Seeger Upright Piano

[SeegerPlayer]

Hello everyone,

Here I have a piano I am looking to buy. I am not sure of the age, which is mainly what I would like to know.


Below is an image of the piano in question;


And here is the piano itself on the website for sale, http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =600596534.


And here is some questions and answers the seller has received during the course of the auction;

Hello, is it on wheels? Are you able to find out the age, and if not perhaps the serial number please? So it plays fine? Any problems? Thank you.

Yes is on wheels.How would I find out the age?Have had it as I said for about 30years and I purchased it from a music store and although it was second hand it was not really old then.There is a number stamped on the inside on the wood, and I think it says 10697.Yes it does play fine the reason I am selling it is that, we would like to move and do not want to take it with us, and our grandson whom we are raising has special needs and is unable to learn to play it.Happy to keep if not sold.

Any help would be much appreciated, thank you. :) I was wanting to know age, and thoughts and general opinion on the piano and it's condition? I know it's hard to tell not in person but hopefully can get some useful information.

Thanks.

[Bill Kibby]

I don't think the serial number will do you any good with this name. Are you sure about the spelling? It looks like one that has been modernised around the fifties, the top corners rounded off, but it could be thirties, I can't tell. There may be dates inside, see
http://pianohistory.info/datemarks.html

Nobody can guess the value or condition of a piano without being there to inspect it.

Only a few Victorian pianos have wheels, they only move in one direction. The rest have castors, which can be moved in any direction.

[Colin Nicholson]

I have a listing in the piano atlas guide of a H.A Seeger.
Address: Lytoon Street, Liverpool, England. Established 1866 -
Ceased production: 1960

If the serial number you give is genuine, and hoping the numbers here are reliable your piano would be dated around 1953 ...... as Bill suggests.

#10000 - 1952
#10350 - 1953
#11000 - 1954

Possibly a small retail workshop/shop who bought & sold pianos and appended their own name and decal onto pianos.

For the price the piano looks reasonable from the outside and a typical 1950's look.
However for the price - I wouldn't be too bothered about history/provenance/ dates etc.... and as long as it tunes up ok - you may gave a bargain.
We dont know NZ currency conversions here in the UK - so if you show us a price you are kindly asked to convert it to the British Pound Sterling.

I am estimating ...... £160.00? ......
Might be worth it - who knows.... but not a popular brand name - in fact, never heard of it until I looked it up!

[SeegerPlayer]

The spelling is what it appears to be on the piano itself in the photo and what the seller is listing it as, although I cannot be sure myself.

I am planning to inspect the piano this weekend for purchase, I will check out that link for hints and tips to get a better idea on it, thanks.

Yes of course, but you've already given me a better understanding of it, thank you.

Okay well I assume they're castors then.

Thanks Colin. Well that's not too bad is it? I am hoping to tune the piano and learn to play from it. :) I hope the numbers are in order.

Yes well that could have been the case also I guess, I hope it is a genuine.

The price I can get it for converts to "104.86 British Pound Sterling" in today's money according to Google.

I thought "Seeger" was quite a well-known one? But I do not know anything about pianos really!

Not sure if you both checked out the link but here's a quote of their listing details anyway;

I am sorry I do not remember how old it is but I have had it for about 30years and I purchased it from a shop secondhand but it was still pretty new then.I have had it tuned but do not remember when the last time was.It still sounds pretty good though
Measures approx 115cm tall, 137cm long, and 59cm deep.Weight is heavy as any piano is
Has a piano stool but I don't know how old that is either but it used to belong to my parents.It has a lift up lid to keep music in
Could do with a reupholster probably
Piano is in good condition although it was in the 1984 floods but went back to the shop and was cleaned and sorted.
It has had a split on the lid which has been repaired
We no longer have the use for it and we are having a clear out
Buyer must pick up with enough man (or woman) power to move it.
Trademe tells me I cannot put any personal details so that you can come and view it.If you want to view it you would have to win the auction and then come and look and then we can cancel the deal if you did not want to go through with it
If it doesn't sell that is ok too

Thank you very much Bill and Colin. :)

[Colin Nicholson]

What made you think it was well-known?
I would most certainly get the piano checked out for that price.

A piano owner's personal reviews about a piano is good to see - but it doesn't make it well-known by any means - only in their own eyes. However, it is listed in the book with some serial numbers and dates - and since the piano has been "mentioned" - it puts it on the map..... but not well-known..... and even if it was a Steinway - subject to previous FLOODS!! .... it might be well not having a name. Don't forget - the piano has just been named by the retailer - not the manufacturers [whoever they are?] ...... so buying any piano - treat it like a wooden box with strings at first.

I would also be careful about the "1984 floods" ,, and that it has been "sorted" !!?? .... thats rather vague too! .... get the pedals checked/ soundboard/ bass bridge for any damage/ cracks etc.... and piano is often rendered worthless and un-tuneable if large cracks appear - and thats quite expensive to put right. Perhaps ask for receipts/ invoices for what has been "sorted" ? Also possibly damage to the veneer?/ heavy rusting around hitch pins/ signs of previously broken strings? .... again, receipts should show this - or give it a good look over.

Also check out the hammers/levers/ dampers for any slow or sluggish moving parts - resulting in ringing-on/ poor repetition. If the piano needs re-pinning - that can be an expensive job..... costing about 4 X the value of the piano - and often major repairs are not economical considering the price paid.

PREVIOUS FLOODS CAN SPELL DANGER - GET IT CHECKED OUT.....

For that price though - I would be tempted to buy it but possibly get the tuning pins checked for torque by a tuner & the mechanism. It's good to see the owner's own 'notes' on the piano and having it for about 30 years - but of course they are still quite vague in its full description. I would imagine it is overstrung & underdamped?.... do you know the internal design?

I would also get the tuning checked out - it will probably be well below concert pitch - and a tuner should put that right. People's perception of pitch/tuning etc are alot different to the real pitch - and what a piano tuner makes of it. It will definitely need tuning regardless - possibly twice.

Good luck if you decide to buy it.

[Bill Kibby]

There were a number of firms named Seager, but as far as I am aware, only one SEEGER. Dates of some serial numbers are published, but my experience with others makes me a tad sceptical.

SEAGER & SEAGER, London
SEAGER (A.) Key maker?
SEAGER (Alfred Samuel) London
SEAGER (Alfred) Essex -
SEAGER (Earnest) London
SEAGER (G.) & Co., London
SEAGER (George) Essex
SEAGER (George) London
SEAGER (H.) London
SEAGER (Samuel) London
SEAGER (T.) London
SEAGER (W.) London
SEAGER (Walter) Norfolk / Essex
SEAGER (William) London
SEAGER Brothers, London & Liverpool
SEAGER, Jersey
SEAGER, LUCAS & PYNE, London

[SeegerPlayer]

I don't know, just an assumption.

Yes, how bad could floods damage a piano, as the playing part of it is from the keys up? That's a very good point about the retailer name, thanks. So the manufacturers could be anyone?

Large cracks appearing where, anywhere would render the piano useless? Yes that's a good idea, will try find out what has been "sorted". The veneer is the wooden drop-down piece that goes over the keys? What are hitch pins sorry?

Will do. What is re-pinning?

Okay, I will be cautious.

A good price you think? Yes I thought the thirty years was quite a good value. Sorry, what does overstrung and underdamped mean? No I don't know the internal design. I will ask them for some more photos and what has been "sorted" and damaged in the past.

I will be getting it a tune for sure. Are there any dangers and/or risks playing it before it's been tuned though? Why would a second tuning ever be needed? Sorry, I do not know too much about pianos but would love to!

Thank you very much for your help, it's basically what's said here that will decided whether I buy it or not.

Skeptical in what regard Bill? Do you think it could be a cheap copy or something worse?

Thanks, as far as I know it is "Seeger" but it may mean nothing? Cheers.

[Colin Nicholson]

This is a recent post about a new member who has just bought an upright piano for £45...... not previously inspected/ checked over etc.... and took a risk....

This explains a bit about re-pinning >> [scroll down to my reply]

http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... =3&t=10941

The lid that covers the keys is called a "fall" or "fallboard".... not 'veneer'.
Veneer is the name given for the wooden "skin" covering the whole piano - every panel and section will be veneered.

Ask your tuner/ inspector about hitch pins - these are located at the bottom of the piano where the strings are 'hitched' around a protruding metal peg/pin.... either looped around a pin, or individually hitched [like bass strings].

Because there is about 18 TONS of downpull of all the strings - this immense weight & downbearing is supported by a cast iron frame to stop the piano bending.
When a piano has not been tuned for many years, the pitch will have dropped - so after this long period of pitch dropping, everything needs to be hauled back up to pitch.... this usually takes 2 visits. Visit 1: Pitch change/ course tuning. 2: Stabilise the pitch/ finer tuning [about 2 weeks later].

A piano that has not been tuned for many years cannot withstand a "one off tuning" - however, if you dont want a pitch change, your tuner can tune it to where the pitch has settled - which rules out accompaniment for other instruments or voices etc.

If you email me - I can give you more information on this.

Your piano may need a 2nd visit if you request for a pitch change.... but then after this initial "intensive care" - if you have your piano tuned regularly thererafter [every 6 months is recommended] - then this pre-course tuning will not be needed any more.... however this depends on the condition of the piano.

[SeegerPlayer]

Okay found another one. A "Collingwood" upright piano with the serial number "20098". Age please? Thanks.

Some random person contacted me through the questions I was asking on the Seeger listing and I ended up viewing it today. The keys all play and there seems to be no delay in the hammers hitting the chords, which I thought must be really good? Had a sticker on the inside last tuned in 1984. Sounds like it has been in the family for over forty years. And the veneer on this one is apparently Rimu tree.

[Bill Kibby]

Nobody can guess the value or condition of a piano with out inspecting it and tuning it.

The Collingwood name is not a real maker, so the serial number does not help.

Answers to some of your questions may be found at
http://pianogen.org/edwardian.html