Plastic bushings in action - advice needed

[jolly_tunes]

We have a Schreiber piano which despite being quite modern looking is showing a few battle scars from my accident-prone partner. We had considered getting it refinished but the action could also do with some attention as several of the hammers are a little slow to return which has been identified as being caused by friction in the plastic bushings. I have also been told these type of actions can also become noisy with age, which isn't currently a problem. Several of the jack butt springs have also sheared off, which we have been told is relatively unimportant and inexpensive to repair. We are currently debating whether to replace the piano or get some work done to this one, but several pianos we have looked at of a similar age also seem to share the same problem. Too many questions I know, but am I wasting my time throwing any money at this piano or indeed others of a similar type when it needs so much work or is it easily solved, were there many British-built compact pianos built 40-50 years ago that didn't use plastic bushes in the action, are there any action names to look out for or avoid, and when did felt bushings make their return? I see even Steinway briefly used the same bushes before abandoning them!

[Colin Nicholson]

Welcome to the forum....

Cloth bushings (not strictly called felt) have always been around right up to today's pianos - mainly in wooden flanges, and depending on the 'budget' piano you buy, some have plastic/nylon bushings, some have plastic flanges with cloth bushings, and of course the most common is wooden flanges with cloth bushings. There are about 10 different kinds of flange: hammer flanges sometimes have a cord loop (pre 1920ish - without).

Just to clarify? .... are the flanges AND bushings plastic? - and are the hammer butts wooden?

Even modern Yamahas use plastic flanges/ key capstans etc.... but the bushings are usually cloth, and not nylon. Same applies with carbon fibre action parts for Kawai.

Re-pinning the odd hammer is not that expensive, and most tuners may just charge an hourly rate to do a few.... however, if most of the hammers are slow in returning, then repinning is quite expensive. Also - other "non related" parts may be affected and break such as the bridle tapes, because these have to be disconnected first to remove the hammer. Also - re-aligning the back checks/ jacks to notches etc can cause regulation problems.

Re-pinning is a specialised job for a piano technician/tuner, and requires specialist tools to ream the cloth, and then remove/insert new (slightly larger) centre pins, and to trim the excess off. NOT a DIY job!

There are TONS of other pianos out there with normal "wooden flanged bushings" - having red bushing cloth where the pin glides over at each end.

Schreiber are also similar to Zender uprights - their damper flanges are also plastic bushings. Have a look at Knight, Bentley, Welmar, Yamaha, Broadwood, .... post them here, and we might know the mechanism design.

However - AVOID Lindner (Ireland) pianos at all costs! - their flanges are a snap-on design (no screws) - and they often break, and parts are like gold dust.
Also - although Eavestaff are sometimes OK.... generally avoid the 1930's art deco ones - that look like a school desk when the lid is closed - a tuner's nightmare to tune & service.

If you are buying on-line, then you take a chance, so its best taking a piano tuner along with you to check it over. It's worth the call-out fee and peace of mind.

You've probably a 1/100 chance of finding another piano with nylon bushings! (no cloth).

Hope that helps......

Colin

[jolly_tunes]

Thanks for the quick reply.

The piano has what I believe is called the Kastner-Wehlau floating centre action. All of the pivot points have a plastic bush which appears to have an oxidised brass centre pin. I enclose a diagram of the bush as it is mounted in the wooden flange.

Can the plastic bushings be repinned like the old-fashioned felt bushings or would this be at best a temporary repair, and at what point does the action become beyond economic repair? I would imagine the cost of rebushing the whole action to be prohibitive.

I have seen a Chappell piano which appealed, however, it was fitted with a Schwander action made by Herrburger Brooks at Long Eaton. I believe from talking to someone who formerly worked at the factory that they also produced the Kastner-Wehlau actions for Barratt and Robinson/Schreiber.

I would be reluctant to invest in another piano with similar bushings in the action.

I have not been able to examine the piano closely enough to check. Would this indeed be the case or would it depend on the age of the piano?

[vernon]

Shreibers were made by Barratt and Robinson and the defective plastic key bushings can be carefully removed and replaced with conventional bushing cloth.
It depends on the condition of the whole piano whether this is worth doing.

[Colin Nicholson]

I think the piano would need to be inspected first, and a piano tech to repin the odd hammer to see how it repins ok. I've not re-pinned this kind of bushing. A piano colleague of mine also has a Schreiber upright to sell - looks like a Barratt & Robinson, and this has normal felt/cloth bushings - so it depends on the action maker, and what the original price of the piano was.

Schwander make good actions - so cant see them being plastic, but best to check.
I wouldn't be too put-off by choosing the next piano.

It depends on how much you paid for the piano if you think re-pinning is worth its while.... its "dead" money really - loads of labour involved. Depending on the condition of the strings/ wrest pins/ plank/ soundboard etc etc.... it may be uneconomical to repin the whole movement - but would probably cost more than the piano is worth.... then you have removal costs? So I always recommend a tuner to check it over - its not a job for a novice pianist, or simply "word of mouth"

Problem is that alot of folk dont like to pay for inspections/ pre assessments etc.... and prefer to take a risk. Just 3 days ago, I assessed a Challen baby grand (4ft) - and its sitting right next to a 9 FOOT double radiator!! - most of the bass bi chord wrest pins are loose and wont tune. He was quoted about £9K for a new plank/ restring etc.... by another tuner, and I quoted a few hundred for a "risky" repair using pin tite/ oversized pins and a re-tune.... about a 2 day visit overall. Punter pleased as punch for now - well, not started the work yet - but I'm quite confident I've saved him several thousands - even if the job doesnt work. I did a piano 3 years - and still going strong!

[Bob Pierce]

If you like the piano and want to keep it ask a technician to quote on replacing the flanges with wooden ones with cloth bushings. Its a quick easy job and will keep the piano going.