William Squire - worthless?

[sherikatz1]

A piano tuner just informed me my William Squire upright piano is worthless. Its approximate age is 100 years old. Do you have any advice. I purchased it from an American Cancer Society thrift shop and was told that it just needed a good tuning. HA!
Thank you : Sheri Katz, Eureka, CA

[PianoGuy]

He's probably right, but console (see what i've done there?!... ) youself with the fact that it's probably not as rubbish as a Baldwin Acrosonic, Wurlitzer Schitzer, Kimball anything (with or without "Kimballs patented Mezzo Thermoneal stabilizer" (sic) whatever that is) or just about any other American spinet ever built.

Try another tuner. If I'm confronted by any of the above, I refuse to tune it. I last tuned an American spinet in 1986 when I realised it was an impossible task, and you could spend all day on them still with crappy results. Luckily, most people in the UK have more taste than to buy one in the first place. I am told by other tuners that some are tuneable, but I don't believe them.

My point is this: I hate spinets, and value them as worthless. The tuner you employed may hate 100 year old English uprights and value them similarly. Another tuner may think of them in a more kindly light, and value them differently. You didn't say whether the tuner actually tuned it or not. It's probably not worth a fortune, but if it sounds OK and you like it, then don't worry too much about its monetary value.

[Gill the Piano]

If it's a British Squire, then they tended to be well made workmanlike instruments - no fireworks, just a good solid piano. That said, if it's been exposed to 110 degrees in the shade/blizzards/hurricanes/tornados/floods/air conditioning/other american standard climactic conditions, it might not be terribly happy. It needs to be kept reasonably humid - but not too much!
I tune one which has been lugged across the herring pond four times now, and it's still going. Just find a sympathetic tuner!

[sherikatz1]

Thank You Gentlemen,

I have located another registered piano technician who will drop by this week. He has worked on this type of birdcage piano over the years, so I will keep my fingers crossed. Regardless, it is a beautiful looking piano. Again thank you from across the pond.

Sheri
Eureka, California

[Bill Kibby]

It is certainly true that some american tuners can't be bothered with old overdamper ("birdcage") pianos, and whereas the owner thinks it is a wonderful, beautiful antique, the tuner may say it's worthless. The truth is probably somewhere in between the two! Over here, we are quite used to tuning overdampers, and the whole system of working for UK tuners is based on the need to accommodate them - there are thousands in front rooms in the UK, doing a perfectly useful job. The method used by most American tuners simply won't work with overdampers, so you have to hope you can find that more adaptable, open-minded tuner.

[Mark Alexander]

The problem is nowadays that not only can a piano of this age be worthless but you would also be looking to pay someone to take it away if you wanted rid of it.

As an experienced UK tuner I regularly tune pianos that cost more for me to tune them than they are worth. I am still happy to tune these pianos and keep them at concert pitch because I take the attitude that however old, as long as the piano is tuneable and the customer is happy to keep using the piano, I will keep it in tune.

Unfortunately nowadays, especially in the UK pianos are worth less and less. Indeed a local dealer will sell me a piano today for the same price I would have payed him twenty three years ago.

It is becoming harder and harder to sell a piano.

My serious advice to you is to consider the lowest price that a tuner values your piano at as correct.

If you believe that it is worth more then try and get it. Hopefully you will be lucky.

Best wishes.

Mark.

[Rick Patten]

Hi, I live in the Northwest USA myself. Namely, Vancouver Washington. I find that 90% of the techs I come into contact with will condem an Overdamper English made piano site unseen. This is not acceptable to me. My experience is that aside from the issues related to old brittle wood parts, the pianos are just as repairable or rebuildable as any other upright, and the wood issues can be delt with by a compitant technician. The cost of doing this is nessesary to compare with your attachment to the looks and style of the case. Rebuilding can be expensive, depending on the extent of the work needed. The cost of a newer piano may be the route less expensive. Bottom line: How bad do you want that particular piano? Get opinions from only the techs who can tune your piano.

[Bill Kibby]

When it comes to disposing of an old piano, if you're in East Anglia, I may take it away for you myself, but please don't burn it, dump it or smash it up. Contact freecycle.com and someone will pick it up! If you must junk it, please try to email me pictures and as much information as you can.

[am1]

Hi, 3 weeks ago we purchased a William Squire upright for, predominately, my 8 year old son. We looked at the piano and had 2 independant tuners look at it beofre purchase. I have had it tuned today with no problem at all. It is a beautiful piece of furniture, walnut case etc. and I am so pleased that it was tunable when we were making enquiries about it. We were told by the family that the piano dated form approx late 1920's but the tuner today thinks that, looking at the internal workings, it probably pre-dates the first world war. I am extremely pleased with the piano and am hoping it will give many years of joy to my son.

[Bill Kibby]

Sounds like it was made by the original firm, before Kembles were involved. The heading, referring to another piano, is obviously not qpplicable to your piano if it has been renovated.

[am1]

Hi, I've been trying to research William Squire on the net and getting nowhere! you've mentioned Kembles taking over the firm? we'd really like to know more about the original piano makers William Squire as the family we bought the piano off are now too interested in its history, as are we being great history buffs! If you could point me in the direction of the William Squire firm I'd be grateful.
I am also aware that the original naming of the post does not apply to my piano, I was simply pointing out that our william Squire was as equally old and was tunable ... my piano has not been renovated in any way, it was bought for the lady who we bought it off when she was 8 years old in 1930, the family believed it had been made in 1928. it has been with the lady since 1930, making only 3 moves in its life - from her childhood home to her married home, from the 'middle' room of the house to the front parlour and now from the front parlour, where it had stood for 40 years, to ours. The only marks on it are small chips low down on the casement and a small water mark on the to at the back. original candelabra bracket markings can be seen but have been skillfully [can't think of the right words here! but 'filled in']
thanks

[Bill Kibby]

Filled in seems a perfectly good term to me. 1928 is fairly late for sconces (projecting candle-holders). All too often we know little or nothing of the people, and the many descendants of piano makers who write to me are often seeking information rather than offering it.

1829 William Brinsmead Squire opened a piano factory, W. B. Squire & Sons at 42B Hampstead Rd. NW, and carried on the business, first at 5, then at 3 - 5 Stanhope St, Euston for many years.

1864 W.B.Squire died, his widow, Betsey (nee Chambers) carried the business on as B. Squire and Son, under which name it flourished till about the 1930s.

Some information on pianos of that period may be found at
http://pianogen.org/edwardian.html

[am1]

thanks for the prompt reply.

we also have Gough and Davy marked onto the piano, they are a local firm and were established 1860.

I am now presuming that William Squire made the piano and it was then bought by Gough and Davy sometime between 1860 and 1928.

Despite a lot of research i cannot find a definite 'point' towards William Brinsmead Squire as a piano maker .... there are hints of him but nothing definite, I'm interested in the maker and would be interested to hear more on william Squire and B.Squire if you could help?

[Bill Kibby]

You are right about the retailer. There is a great deal of confusion between the various Squire firms, related or not, and I cannot say I have sorted out the wheat from the chaff.

Are you able to post photos of the whole piano here, or email them to me to post?

This new posting should appear at the top of the list, so as to attract more responses, but it is not doing that at the moment. I barely know how to make a website, and have no answers to that puzzle!

[am1]

I will try and e-mail some to you over the next week or so! I'm no computer techie unfortunately so it may take a while!

[Bill Kibby]

Sorry I was confused because (apparently) this is not on the piano history forum. I just clicked the link and assumed it was.