George Challenger, Ford & Co.

[TexasRon]

I need information on a George Challenger, Ford and Co. piano .
4 Cleveland Street W Fitzroy Square.

I have a serial number: 6590

Any Information is appreciated.

Thanks

[Bill Kibby]

In 1855, Challenger, Ford & Co. were established, although perhaps not under that name. By 1864, the Post Office London Directory lists Challenger, Ford & Co., at that same address - 4 Cleveland Street London W. The W prefix would have been added to the London address around the 1850s.

By 1865, they had moved to 93 Charrington Street NW. This seems to put your piano before 1865, but if you would email photos to me, I may be able to judge whether this is likely. Unfortunately, such pianos usually have little value this side of the ocean, and we are offered several a year for nothing, just to save them from destruction.

[TexasRon]

Hello Bill,
I am attaching pictures of the Piano,
Please provide me with any information on the age and history.
Thank You
Ron

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi Ron,
I think you have asked some similar questions over 2 years ago, of which Bill answered for you? Were the photos presented then, or just now? I dont think there is much to add to the info & addresses shown.

This is a typical English "Cottage" piano of the late 1880's, finished in walnut, and decorated in ebony brush strokes. The Pierce Piano book suggests a date around 1870 - 1875 for your piano, but there is often gaps in these dates..... perhaps 1871?? It looks like the original length of cloth/material behind the fret work (on the main top front panel) has been replaced with a panel of wood.... pity!

Many of these pianos were straight-strung and over-damped, and had various lift rods at the side of each hammer.... these days, many 'ring on' !!

Many of these pianos now often don't really serve as musical instruments , but more like a piece of furniture , and many these days are very difficult to tune successfully, or can't be tuned at all. I suspect that this piano has a wooden or 3/4 iron frame and has occasional metal brace bars to add some stability (if wooden). If you remove the bottom panel and take a photo, we will be able to confirm this.

When many new members ask for 'History' - they sometimes expect there are books readily available for your specific piano, but there are no history or blue-books for many pianos, only "general history" info like dates, addresses, when established, when closed down, who took over etc etc (that kind of info.) - other info we give is about the mechanism, or the stringing formation/ internal structure etc.... but we need to see the interior for that info.



Hope that helps......

Colin

[Bill Kibby]

My estimate of this piano would be 1873, in spite of the address, so it begins to look as if the published dates of Challenger's numbers may be correct. (So many are not!) I am grateful to Colin for pointing them out, I don't think I have ever used them before. Cottage pianos like this died out in the mid-1880s, as you can read at
http://pianogen.org/victorian.html
and this is earlier. Have a look also at
http://pianogen.org/datemarks.html

The Royal crest appears on some pianos in connection with a Royal Letters Patent. This does not mean that Challenger made pianos for royalty. The dealer's name John Irvine also appears. 1852 was the first Aberdeen Directory to list Piano-forte Makers, including John Irvine 247 George-street. Technically, by 1872 the firm was Irvine & Morrison, so perhaps we should amend the estimate to 1871-2.