Old upright piano from Leipzig?

[pianoforte]

My first post!
I want to ask about an old piano i have just inherited from a neighbour,i have read all i could on this website and searched accordingly but i cannot find a date or maker anywhere.It has not been restored,serviced,or even tuned in many years but I play a bit of piano and it sounds rather wonderful to my ears and everything seems to work well.There is a number 2646 stamped,both up on the right of the frame and the inside edge of the wooden fold-down that covers the keyboard.There's Also a paper label(added later?).
Some pictures here;

[Colin Nicholson]

Welcome to the forum.

Its nice to see a decorative piano for a change.
Stating the obvious here.... but is there no name on the fallboard? (lid that covers the keys). I would have imagined some brass inlay there. I restored a piano very similar to this about 2 years ago (had similar mechanism) - and stood a whopping 56 inches tall! The name was 'Carl Mand' - but this may not be the name for yours. Could be that, or possibly a Knauss.

I agree that there hasnt been much done to the mechanics, however it has had a few small repairs - couple of hammer shanks replaced, and 3 strings replaced - I think they should have been bass tri-chords, but instead steel wire replaced instead.

You may find further clues behind the mechanism - so if you remove all 5 round screws, and lean the mechanism forward towards you, look behind there, and also remove the bottom panel - there may be a decal on the soundboard. I would estimate this piano to be somewhere around 1900 - 1905 - possibly earlier - but there is no way of knowing for definite, and even a name often has no serial numbers.

Hope that helps

Colin

[Bill Kibby]

Klemm put his name onto pianos, and seems to have been a maker, so one possibility is that the label was put there when the name was lost during repolishing. My estimate of this piano is 1897, but unless the action has markings on the rear, or there are date-marks somewhere, we can't tell.

[pianoforte]

Thank-you both,as you suggested i took the mechanism off and found stamped into the wood was AG 4185 also on a flat brass fitting that runs along this mechanism is stamped C.de Rohden-PATENT.Otherwise no name or date that i could see.
Regarding the paper label,i had been searching Klemme/Klemne with no success but after your post i found; Carl August Klemm (1769-1830) who started a firm of piano makers and instrument dealers in Plauen 1806,moving to Leipzig in 1809 where it lasted until 1837.If correct this would make the piano much older?
A bit more gossip......the lady who left me this piano had earlier been an opera singer and music professor in Berlin.She told me (several times!) that the piano had never been sold for money and was a bit special because the maker had made it for himself and it had later been handed on through her familly,she also said it had survived a large house fire but i can't see any evidence for this.
I appreciate your help,i have a small collection of old instruments and aside from a love of the sound they produce it's knowing their history that somehow brings them closer!

[Bill Kibby]

It would be worrying if my estimates were six years out, let alone sixty! This is not an 1837 piano. De Rohden was an action maker in France, it was common for makers to import foreign actions.

[pianoforte]

I'm sure you are right!...i took this info. from "Makers of the piano vol.2.1820-1860"...the only reference to C.A.Klemm/piano/Leipzig that came up.
Do you mean that the whole action board was made in France by De Rohden?I didn't realise you could buy the parts in sections and assemble it like a kit...no wonder there's so many piano-makers!
I wonder if you can get any idea how well-made this piano is from the pictures....as i said earlier it sounds nice to me and not so out-of-tune but i live on a small island with no piano tuner so it would be quite an expense to bring one over from the mainland.

[Colin Nicholson]

Of course, any reference to a piano maker this old on-line is mostly "here say" - and what went into the design can now only be revealed by a piano technician who un-bolts and strips down every component in the smallest of parts & detail, just like I did with the Carl Mand. Some of the parts of the mechanism may have to be hand-made and specially profiled to match the original parts. For example, on a modern action, the jack springs are spiral shaped.... but on this piano I restored, they were like a damper spring - so I had to hand-profile all 85 springs. They were all well made, even butt plates on the stickers - but any piano that functions correctly about 120 years old is a bonus!!

Enjoy!

[pianoforte]

Thanks!
.......and thanks for your help.