J. White & sons Ltd chesterfield

[Joostvaneck]

Hi,
I just bought a piano from j. White & sons on a brocante.
Can you help me, how old it can be, and what the worth can be.
There is à number in all panels 24650
On The internet i saw a piano from j. White and sons With The same logo (The name was at The Same way written) and they asked 100.000 dollar. Can that be The worth?

Hope hearing soon.
Regards Joost

[Bill Kibby]

I don't know what a brocante is. Nobody can tell you the value of your piano without inspecting it and tuning it.

In 1894, Joseph White, Chesterfield. By 1899 they were J. White & Sons until at least 1914. By 1928 they were White's (Music) Ltd., so I guess your piano might date from 1915-1923. Can you upload some photos of the whole piano?

[Colin Nicholson]

Please provide the following information, and we may be able to help:-

Photos of the following:- (clear & focussed)

1. Whole piano - lid that covers the keys open showing keys/ pedals & panels.
2. Name of the piano on the front lid.
3. Mechanism & strings inside - with front panel removed.
4. How much you paid for the piano
5. Where in the world/ UK do you live?

What did you 'just' paid for the piano?? - surely this will be what it is worth?
Old pianos are not worth much these days.

No one can value a piano here on this forum - you will need to make an appointment with a piano tuner (who is knowledgable about piano history) - who will make an on-site/ on-the-spot assessment. This is also chargeable - and takes around 30 minutes to complete, depending on the design. The tuner will aseess the tuning, pin torque & general condition of the internal workings & external condition of the casework/ keys/ pedals/ quality of tone/ pitch of piano etc etc..

[Colin Nicholson]

A "Brocante" is evidentally some kind of French term for an antiques fair/ flea market - (and maybe some 'car boot' thrown in for good measure)!

[Joostvaneck]

please find some photos.
I bought the piano for 500 euro
We live in the netherlands.
whenn you need some more info please let me know.

[Bill Kibby]

I would say this piano was made around 1905. The action is imported from Germany, an arrangement that would have stopped with the outbreak of the 1914 war. Have a look at this link...
http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... f=2&t=8718

At auction here in Britain, an ordinary run-of-the-mill piano of this age would fetch very little, often less than thirty euros.

[Colin Nicholson]

You may have paid slightly "over the odds" for this piano, however it looks OK from the outside. The internal mechanism is an over-damped action, and the general design is straight-strung (strings are vertical) with a three-quarter cast iron frame.
The internal mechanism looks like a "spring & loop" design - and some piano tuners do not tune these pianos now, as they are more trouble than they are worth. However - if the springs & loops work, most of the notes should be OK.

You may be fortunate if the dampers & mechanism still work, but many of these types of piano are now obsolete.... known as a "birdcage" action, because the wires at the front resemble a bird cage. Sometimes dreaded by piano tuners!

Before you arrange to have your piano tuned, you will need to have some of the hammers repaired first (piano can't really be tuned with missing hammers) - it looks like one or two are missing? .... and the hammer heads have broken off their shanks. Have a look inside the piano - the hammer heads may be there. I wouldnt try to remove the mechanism either, just in case anything else breaks!! .... so you will need some repairs doing first (subject to finding a tuner who will do this work), then your tuner may arrange a tuning when the hammers are fixed. It also looks like there may be one or 2 "dodgy" DIY repairs to some other hammers? -

Regrettably, here in the UK, these pianos are not worth anything - they may fetch a few pounds at auction. Dont forget to ring your tuner (even if you have booked an appointment) - and tell him/her there are BROKEN hammers..

Hope that helps

[Joostvaneck]

Thank you for The info.
Tomorrow we are calling à tuner. IT is right that two hamers are broken, they were in to The piano.
Do they use The broken hamers?
The dampers and mechanism seems to Work ok.
I let you know what The tuner tells me.

Regards

[NewAge]

With reference to your recent J.White & Sons Ltd piano purchase. I'd be interested to know whether you purchased this specifically for a usable musical instrument, or as a pleasant piece of furniture, or perhaps both.
Colin is correct, a 'brocante' is indeed a French term for antiques fair/flea market. I've never understood why, but the French don't have car boot sales, although the nearest equivalent is known as a Vide Grenier (attic clear-out or garage sale) usually conducted in the village square.
I'm a keen and frequent visitor to these antique fairs/flea markets, and probably visit at least two each month here in France - although never for pianos I hasten to add! Over the last six or so years I have never seen a piano worth anything, except perhaps for miscellaneous spare parts. When I do see a piano, I just can't stop myself from looking over it - just for interest sake. I recall two years ago one which did get my pulse racing - at least initially from a distance - was an Erard grand piano. On close-up inspection however it was in fairly poor condition, asking price 600€. And it didn't sell by the end of the day.
In my experience, pianos sold at markets of this type are highly exaggerated in price, and the transport charge would largely exceed the instruments true value. Arguably though, the value of a piano is the actual price paid by an individual, but whether the instrument would give satisfaction to the new owner - especially as a musical instrument - is a completely different debate.
For those seeking a cheap piano to play, i.e. iron-frame/overstrung/underdamped, occasionally a reasonable instrument can be found for a very maximum of 500€ from private ads, especially persons who are moving house etc. But do try it before parting with your cash!

[Colin Nicholson]

Do they use The broken hamers?

Yes and No....

Hammer head - YES
Hammer shank - NO


please don't throw the hammers out - the tuner will use the hammer heads again (oval part with felt on).... but the broken wooden dowel (shank) will need to be extracted or drilled out, and new shanks fitted. Sometimes if the breakage is "with the grain" - your tuner can do a quick on-site repair using thread & glue. Please make sure you keep all the broken parts in a safe place - also the hammer heads are different sizes, so your tuner will match up the correct size with its neighbouring hammer.