Smith Gibson & Co. Square Piano

[paulo.esteireiro]

Hi
Do anybody know a piano maker "Smith Gib--n & [son]". I found it in a Square Piano at Madeira Island.

I uploaded a image so you can see it.

Best regards
Paulo

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

I don't know the maker sorry.
Have you bought it?
Are you buying it?
Is that woodworm widespread? Does it look fresh?

[Colin Nicholson]

Very little to go on here.
Looks like 'Smith Gibson & Co' but can't be sure.

There are several references to 'Gibson' with other names - so it may be an alias of.

There may be further clues inside?

[paulo.esteireiro]

Thank you for your answers.
Unfortunately, it is in a "very bad shape". The woodworm is widespread and it will not have a long life.

[Colin Nicholson]

What happened to the key tops? are they being replaced?
This piano is full of history & possibly restorable.

The woodworm is curable - but will require careful dismantling of all the parts affected by it. IF (and I mean IF) the parts affected are easily removable and not too big (eg a leg support), then wrap it up in 2 or 3 plastic bin bags tightly, and seal it, then pop the part in a freezer for about 5 days.... this will stop any further woodworm growth & it doesn't damage the wood (I've tried it).... then get someone to strip/ stain/ re-polish it & fill in the holes.
But if it has affected the main cabinet.... mmm, ???

Just be careful though pulling out your joint of meat for Sunday dinner!

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

But if it has affected the main cabinet.... mmm, ???

you're gonna need a bigger freezer

Good tip though, thanks for that Colin

[Colin Nicholson]

Cheers Mark, yeh worked fine on an old German scrolled leg!.... mind you, I had to be careful not to get a reputation like Fred West!!!

[Bill Kibby]

I am guessing by the very small area of the piano we can see that it might be around 1805-15, but it would be useful to see what the whole of the outside of the instrument looks like, quite apart from interior details. Could you post more photos, or email them to me? I can't find a "Smith Gibson" yet, but we have so many Smiths on file!

[paulo.esteireiro]

Here you have one more photo. I don't have more at this moment.
Thank you for your advices.
As you can see, the piano has quite a range (6 octaves - from F to F).

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

SURELY it's firewood, Colin?

Just like an old talbot horizon that's been left in a field for 10 years. It's got history and is restorable but.... why would you?

[Bill Kibby]

For the sake of history. The only likely Gibson I can find in my files is Thomas Gibson, who was making pianos in New York around the 1820s. I can't connect him with a Smith at the moment.

How many legs does it have?

[Colin Nicholson]

SURELY it's firewood, Colin?
OOH, don't let Kari see you say this! -- TOO LATE!

I was think more of the Talbot Alpine!! -

Yes, a full range of 6 octaves.... I don't see! - but why not, a good challenge, and if push comes to shove, would make a lovely haystack trough in a barn! Joking aside, assuming its "all there" - I would have a go at it just for the love!

.... but I think we may have a secret piano restorer taking this photo? - since I just spotted the master lever on the piano stool. mmmmm? or the piano tuner has fled that quickly, he's left his lever behind....

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

Good answer

But a Talbot horizon (naff car from the 80s) has history and can be restored but why would anyone?

[NewAge]

Good answer

But a Talbot horizon (naff car from the 80s) has history and can be restored but why would anyone?

Touché!

A chap in our village has no fewer than 5 box-shaped Talbots languishing in his front garden, been there for a few years. He must be a Talbot fan, but I suppose even he can't drum up the enthusiasm to renovate even one of them. Don't know him, but next time I'll ask if he plays a square piano...

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

Mum used to drive a Talbot horizon. Getting dropped off at school in it was not good haha. They sound a bit like old transit vans too. That guy in your village must have 20 square pianos in his garage. All bargains bought at auction

[paulo.esteireiro]

The piano has four legs in a pretty good shape.

[lukejolyon]

I might be able to offer a clue. I'm a player of both pianos and Gibson guitars and so, on a visit to Beaulieu House today with the family, took a picture of a piano which I was amused to note was made by 'Smith, Gibson and Co'. I'm afraid I didn't take a picture of the accompanying notice, but it would have been pretty minimal. The people who run Beaulieu might know more.

The label on this model however is a bit clearer than yours and actually reads 'Smith, Gibson and Co, Makers, Upper Rathbone Place, London.' Weirdly, Upper Rathbone Place is where the current Gibson Guitar Studios are based in London - I came across this post on Google to work out if there is any actual connection - don't think there is, but weird coincidence nonetheless - and proves your piano was made in London!

Can post a picture of this piano label if you want.

[Bill Kibby]

I would certainly be interested to see it, thanks. By 1815, Charles Smith & Co. were in business (with no reference to Gibson) at 17 Rathbone Place, so the piano is probably just a little earlier than 1817, when rounded front corners were something new. So many Smiths to go through!

Years ago, I found an old postcard of a grand piano in Bealieu House, with a square piano off in the background, so I wrote to them for details, but no reply was received.

[lukejolyon]

Hi Bill

Here you go, Bill. The grand piano is still there in the same room - Broadwood I think - I do have a picture of the whole room with both pianos, but it is rather shadowy so I'm not sure it would be of much use.

Luke

[Colin Nicholson]

Re my initial reply to paul......, I suggested it may be 'Gibson' - and spot - on! The name & floral/ instrument designs also match aswell. Ivories have obviously seen better days, and I would imagine this piano is 'unplayable' at the moment. Some TLC needed to this to refurbish it & would look great.

[NewAge]

Re my initial reply to paul......, I suggested it may be 'Gibson' - and spot - on! The name & floral/ instrument designs also match aswell. Ivories have obviously seen better days, and I would imagine this piano is 'unplayable' at the moment. Some TLC needed to this to refurbish it & would look great.

Just a mere week-end job for PianoLove.

[lukejolyon]

Sorry guys - being a bit dim and completely forgot I did actually take a photo of the whole Smith Gibson piano at Beaulieu - here it is.

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks again Luke, I am sure Paulo will be grateful that your clues helped me to find out which Smith it was. This 6-legged form of square piano with normal (squared) corners is often described as "Regency", but in fact, similar instruments were made from at least 1804 to 1828, so the Mean Date would be "circa 1816", but we can say with some certainty that this Beaulieu one was no later than 1814. Regardless of legs, the ones with rounded front corners like Paulo's tend to be from the 1820s onwards, and are rarely before 1817. I must check on Beaulieu again.

[ralphmontagu]

Thanks to Bill Kibby and Luke Jolyon for the information on my father's Smith Gibson at Palace House, Beaulieu. We also have a 1819 Broadwood square piano, serial no. 246358. We are considering having one of these restored; a specialist has already advised that both instruments could be returned to working order. However, I would welcome advice form anyone on the following questions:

- for historical correctness, what kind of music would it be appropriate to play on the square pianos in preference to our newly restored 1825 Broadwood piano forte?

- is there any reason to favour the restoration of one instrument over the other?

[ralphmontagu]

Thanks to Bill Kibby and Lukejolyon for enlightening me on the origins of my father’s Smith Gibson at Palace House Beaulieu. We also have a Broadwood square piano of 1819, no.246358, and we are considering restoring one of them. I appreciate that the costs will probably outweigh the value of the instrument, but I would like to know whether there is any reason to favour the restoration of one square piano over the other? For example, are Smith Gibsons rarer than Broadwoods, or would one produce a distinctly superior sound to the other?

Finally, if we do have one of these instruments in working order again, what kind of music would it be to play on a square piano of this age, in preference to our newly restored 1825 Broadwood piano forte?

I would appreciate your comments and advice.

[ralphmontagu]

Thanks to Bill Kibby and Lukejolyon for enlightening me on the origins of my father’s Smith Gibson at Palace House Beaulieu. We also have a Broadwood square piano of 1819, no.246358, and we are considering restoring one of them. I appreciate that the costs will probably outweigh the value of the instrument, but I would like to know whether there is any reason to favour the restoration of one square piano over the other? For example, are Smith Gibsons rarer than Broadwoods, or would one produce a distinctly superior sound to the other?

Finally, if we do have one of these instruments in working order again, what kind of music would it be to play on a square piano of this age, in preference to our newly restored 1825 Broadwood piano forte?

I would appreciate your comments and advice.

[Bill Kibby]

Certainly Broadwoods are just about the most common and numerous name, I have no experience of Smith Gibson pianos, so I can't compare them. Here in Britain, antique pianos have very little value, regardless of names, but at least the Broadwood is pre-Victorian, so some museums or collectors might be interested. At the Piano History Centre, we have a square piano of similar age and the owners were quoted six thousand pounds to restore. This is not at all unreasonable for the huge amount of specialist work required, but even if they could have afforded it, there was the question of whether it would be worth six thousand pounds when it was finished! They kindly donated it to us as a non-working display item.

As for music, it would seem appropriate to play music that was around in 1819, there is a huge range, and I am not the best person to ask about that kind of music, my main musical area is popular songs, which are not numerous in my repertoire around 1819. Suggestions -
The Star (The poem on which "Twinkle twinkle little star" was based.)
Believe me if all those endearing charms
Austria
Last rose of summer
The Minstrel boy
Silent night
O my love is like a red, red rose
Blest are the pure in heart