Grunert iron frame upright

[clairey114]

I was given this piano 30 years ago and always wondered if it had much value. I've nearly given it away a couple of times but something makes me hang on to it! Inside it says grunert kaiserl.königl.hof.johanngeorgenstadt 22828. Any info would be much appreciated.

[Colin Nicholson]

I think the best way for you to receive any information about your piano would be for us to see it - if you could upload a photo or 2, this would help. Serial numbers are not always reliable. You will need to arrange for a tuner to visit your piano to get a valuation.

[clairey114]

Thanks for replying, here are some photos.

[Colin Nicholson]

Thats an interesting looking piano internally - thanks.
It looks to be around 1910 - it is German inside, but looks rather 'English' externally - but difficult to say without the front panel being on.

The makers name looks genuine enough, and the various wording & crest looks attractive - but too far away to closely examine the crest.

Could you possibly take a clear photo of the crest close up, then if possible, put the top panel back on, close the top lid, open the lid that covers the keys, then take a photo of the WHOLE piano - including the lower sections/ pedals/ feet. - Nothing in front of the piano, no stool etc.

The piano is a German overstrung, with an under-damped mechanism.
Full iron frame with partially exposed tuning (wrest) plank.
Ivory keyboard (with one ivory head missing?)

General condition of the casework is poor I'm afraid, and lots of scratch marks.

Personally, it wouldnt be worth much money as it is now, and you should consider having it restored - but the makers name is not well known.

Hope that helps

[Bill Kibby]

My estimate for this piano would be 1928, but I have so far been unable to find any information about the company. If you ask your tuner to remove the action, it may be marked on the rear with the action makers' name and number, and I may be able to date this.

[clairey114]

The lid is in very bad condition, when I was a kid at home my parents allowed the dog to jump up with his front paws on it and it has deep gauges. It has 3 ivories missing too. Also behind the strings there is a poster pasted to the wood with a picture of some buildings along the top (maybe the makers) and under it says A.H.Grunert pionoforte und flugel fabrik and further writing under that too small to read even with a torch!
I can find little information anywhere about the makers and wondered if this means the piano is only worth pence or may be a little gem if it was restored.
Thanks very much for the replies

[Bill Kibby]

I have established that in 1928, there were TEN piano and music firms in Germany named Grunert, but I cannot offer more details at the moment. In these sort of situations, unless it is a Bechstein or something, the name is irrelevant, it is the condition that counts, and nobody will state a value without being there to examine and tune it. In local auctions here in Britain, it has little value.

[Colin Nicholson]

Quick questions.....
What do you think its worth?
When was the last time it was tuned?
What would it be worth to you, and what is minimum you would accept?

Where abouts are you in the UK? (or world?)

Regrettably your piano may need to join the 'unknown' queue if you come to sell it. At least you know the name is genuine. The crest may have given some clues, but is doesnt, and has been screwed on, instead of incorporated into the cast iron. The soundboard decal may show a a date when the company became established, or possibly exhibition dates, and there may be further clues if you remove the lower panel where the pedal mechanism is located.

The missing ivory.... its quite common for the ivory heads to slip down the side between the keys and lay in the keyframe - but if not there, then they are missing - but can easily be replaced.

There is also a hammer up against a string.... Note C?
Does the hammer move back, or is there resistance if you try to pull it back?

Usually this is a sign that the mechanism has been removed, then a bridle tape has snapped - and so the jack needs resetting

Try a local auction if you need to sell it - start your bidding at around £10 and see what happens..... yep, dont aim too high, especially with all that damage.
I have seen pianos in alot better condition than this, sell for around £10 - £20.
The piano has (shall we say) "some interest" - internally - so it may sell on those grounds, and dont forget to say its a "German overstrung & underdamped" (no need to mention iron frame)....


See the 'Bell' piano I rescued on the other topic - the insides 'worked' - but I couldnt offer anything for it due to the extreme puppy damage - so be prepared even to be charged to have it taken away!!
As Bill says, unless its a Bechstein, Bluthner, Steinway, Schiedmayer.... forget 'value'

I see why you want to hold onto it - and my guess is that you may think it has some value, and if someone did buy it, it would make a MINT!!.... but very wrong. Something like this piano would need alot of work doing to it - a complete mechanism refurb for a start, and then to sort out the scratches etc. Also of course, no one knows here what condition the strings are in, nor the wrest plank & tuning pins - and if the plank is cracked/ damaged - its curtains!

Finally.... to sort out all the casework damage may involve a re-polish with lots of shellac sticks to hide the damage - however, the labour alone here would be immense, and far exceed the value of the whole piano - so for that reason, you now need to decide when to let go of it - or keep it until the day you die, then you will never know!
Pianos are funny old things - easy to buy, but difficult to sell.

Hope that helps

[clairey114]

Thank you very much for your reply, it's what I needed to hear (I think!) I'm down south in Bristol. And I guess the piano has sentimental value, that's the bottom line. It was given to my brother and me when I was 10, it's what I learnt to play on (all be it not very well!) and now I'm 40 and it's never been tuned in that time.
In the recent past I came close to giving it away a couple of times, I'd love the extra space in my dining room, but I'm loath to give it someone whose child gives up lessons after a term or so, kids don't seem to stick at anything nowadays in my opinion (sounding old)
Also I've just had my 1st child, so I may hold on to it now for a few more years and if she has no interest in playing then give it away. I guess as it's in the state it's in only I can love it!!!!
Thanks again to both of you for the replies, much appreciated.

[Colin Nicholson]

Congratulations on your first child. My sister was 38 years old when she had her first sprog, so age was no problem. She lives in Australia now, and Jack will soon be 10. Like you possibly in the future, my sister started Jack off on piano lessons - learning on an old, clapped out piano that resembled a torture cabinet!! .... and sounded like one, so the morel is that "children are very sensitive to musical sounds" - hence, he soon gave up lessons. A pupil of mine has been learning on this old 'dog chewed' Bell piano for over 5 years now - she never made much progress, cancelled lessons loads of times, and lost interest and 'blamed the piano' ! I didnt listen at first. However, I sold them a refurbed piano - good condition, nicely tuned & regulated - in black satin colour, 3 pedals all nice & shiny.... and you wouldnt believe her progress now - its come on leaps & bounds. So, ask yourself.... even if you gave your piano away, would you really expect someone to learn on it?

In around 7 years time, your child may start approaching your piano, tinkling the odd tune, and might ask you to start lessons. So, you need to do the honourable thing, and spend about £250 - £300 (thats all!) - to get up to "working temperature" - and suitable in sound/ tone/ pitch - and something to look forward to when you practise the piano. Regrettably, kids dont have much say these days, and have to put up with whats given. Imagine also learning to drive, or even commuting to work in an old rusty car that misfires, black smoke, has difficulty in starting? .... same with pianos.

Good luck anyway