Moths in old piano

[solhaywood]

Dear all,

I am afraid I need to bother you with another topic regarding my old piano: I opened the bottom panel to put a container with water inside, and a little moth flew out of the piano. It is the first time I see a moth and I am rather concerned: I fear they can do a lot of damage. Is there a solution for this problem in addition to placing moth traps inside the instrument?

Thanks so much.

[Colin Nicholson]

During a full service to a piano (inc. tuning), one of the main things I check for is presence of insects/ may fly larvae (maggot)/ moth damage etc. Its not the actual moth that does any damage, its when it is at the maggot/ larvae stage. This can be quite common on old pianos since it is dark & warm in there. If you catch it early, you can prevent further damage by wrapping some moth balls in tin foil - leaving the top open (this prevents them from rolling around); put a few in the bottom of the piano, and under the keys (key bed), and at the sides of the mechanism.

If they are present inside your piano, they can be difficult to find - and the most common places are behind damper felt (and between the felt & backing cloth), cushion felt, hammer rest rail baize, and even the hammer heads themselves. If your piano is infested - it will need to be completely stripped down. The larvae also like for lunch animal glue (so the bits of felt drop off), soft cushion felt behind the jacks, and many other places. On old pianos, if the back cloth is torn or missing - then you may as well put a sign up "lunch this way >>" .... and depending on the design of piano, the keybed is often exposed, or the bottom panel has a gap at the top - all free entry for insects to lay their eggs.

If you suspect any damage (eg hear clicking noises when you play a note?) - then get it checked out by a professional piano tuner. Regrettably many old pianos are not worth restoring, and it might not be economical to have your piano de- bugged! - a very long and labour of love job. Also check the felt washers under the keys - another common home for insects - and of course spiders do damage aswell - so find out if there are many cobwebs. The spider cocoon is quite small, rounded, white in colour - and feels quite sticky - this is the baby spiders being born! Here is a photo of the damage they can do - and of course, only visible when the whole mechanism is stripped down.... lots of spider's droppings!

This is around the middle C area - and for some strange reason, there is no pattern. The maggot also tunnels its way through the felt, munching away, causing loads of damage and destruction, then depositing its poo - which will resemble the same colour as the felt they have just eaten! - not a pleasant job for the piano techy! You may also find some notes untouched - however, they usually crawl around in a small area - and usually rest/sleep on a ledge inside the mechanism, ready for day 2, day 3, day 4...... !

As shown here, the cushion felt is more or less gone! .... leaving nothing but tiny clusters of digested felt. The poo also feels gritty, but it gets everywhere. I suspect that around 10 spider maggots had a banquet on this hammer!!

Once the spider/insect hatches, it leaves it shell, and flies the nest. Here is another photo taken of under a keyboard - note the spider & insect cocoons are covered in dust - but well gone now, and the damage done years ago.... nothing you can do but replace the felt. Here the cocoons are covered in dust! - so well disguised here. It also takes an expert eye to track them down (if still alive), and sometimes an on-going job to be fully rid of them. If this is the case.... in a word.... get rid of your piano quickly.

Good luck!

[solhaywood]

Dear Colin,

Thanks so much for your reply. I am going to acquire moth balls straight away. This problem has actually made wonder about my tuner (respectully), as when I called him about the moth, he said that 'it might have come from the garden'. I insisted that, as I understand, sometimes they nest underneath the keys, so the piano might be infested, and he replied: 'I don'k know if they nest inside'. No offer of coming to my house to check, or anything like it.

Anyway, I will employ a technician who can actually study the problem and tell me what should I do next. I hope I don't have to get rid of my heirloom; it would break my heart! It still tunes well and seems full of beams.

Thank you again; yours, Sol.

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi Sol....

It is not really the fault of the tuner avoiding this kind of work - in fact, I myself often "turn a blind eye" if the piano is so old, it may not be worth investigating if the customer originally just asked for a tuning. This is one of the reasons why pianos should be inspected first before purchase, or at least serviced every 2-3 years, but regrettably, then the customer can 'turn the other blind eye' !!

Dont forget that there is no ready quick fix for this kind of thing, and whoever you choose to look at it may need to take the mechanism away for further examination/ strip down etc.... aswell as checking under the keys, usually one of the first jobs.

No one will really know where they come from. I restored a piano fully moth eaten, about 10 years ago - this was for the singer song writer Eddie Lawler, who lives in Saltaire, West Yorkshire. Later 'we' learnt that the origin of the problem could have come from the neighbouring canal, which runs through Saltaire and many listed buildings. Your piano could have also beared the scars from a previous location.

To remove certain mechanism components (such as a hammer, lever) - may also create further damage to your mechanism.... bridle tapes may crumble, cushion felts that have been gnawed away, but still resting in their respective place will simply drop off the mechanism - so you will need to be prepared for additional emergency repairs to put things back together. Moth balls may not save previous conditions - well, they wont - but its worth a try. It also depends on the design of mechanism - if over-damped, well, many tuners may run a mile - damper systems on there are notorious for problems, even before, during and after dismantling. Remember also, if your piano is over 80 years old, there is always an element of risk involved.

Good luck though. It may just turn out to a 'passer by' situation - the odd moth, no problem, but if it has recently laid eggs - there is no way of telling even if the mechanism is stripped down - they may be living behind the soundboard, behind voicing cloth & strings (about 215 of them!) - and often difficult-to-reach places. Fumigation is another option - a problem frequently faced with when my colleague exports pianos to Australia - a very strict quarantine service they offer, not just for the pianos (some even new), but for the container they come in.

Even photos dont really help, unless you get to the root of all evils like my photos, and see the damage head-on. General viewing of the mechanism, dust bellows etc.... no chance, doesnt work that way.... and of course, it depends on how many hundreds of pounds you want to spend? If a tuner has another appointment after you - they may not have time to investigate it fully - really, I would suggest a FULL days work to get a good idea.

The photos above were from a different pianos - however, work like this can take in the region of 2-4 weeks for a full strip down, new damper felt & springs, new cloth, new felt throughout, new keyboard washers & paper shims - then the whole lot needs to be regulated, adjusted, keys levelled etc.... not much change from about £800 - £1000.... lots of work, and if the piano is so old there is a risk of breakages, brittle wood (eg flanges) - then it wouldnt be economical, unless your piano had a 'big' name on the fallboard like Steinway, Bechstein, Bluthner etc....

Colin

[Barrie Heaton]

Rentakill or B&Q do an odourless one which kills the eggs as well I tell my clients to put one in but quite a lot don't bother


May be wee need a FAQ on Moths as there is quite a lot of them out there again this year

Barrie